Gauge equivalent of Caliber
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paulvallandigham
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12 gauge is .729" nominally:
16 gauge is .662" nominally:
20 gauge is .615 nominally.
For added interest: 14 gauge is .693, or .69 caliber, 24 gauge is .579, or .58 caliber, and 28 gauge is .550 or 54 caliber reamed out to groove diameter. 36 gauge is .506 or .50 caliber; 51 gauge is .450, or .45 caliber; 72 gauge is .401 or .40 caliber; 100 gauge is .360 or .36 caliber; asnd 143 gauge is .320 or .32 caliber. That covers most of the common rifle calibers, and some of the odd gauges.
16 gauge is .662" nominally:
20 gauge is .615 nominally.
For added interest: 14 gauge is .693, or .69 caliber, 24 gauge is .579, or .58 caliber, and 28 gauge is .550 or 54 caliber reamed out to groove diameter. 36 gauge is .506 or .50 caliber; 51 gauge is .450, or .45 caliber; 72 gauge is .401 or .40 caliber; 100 gauge is .360 or .36 caliber; asnd 143 gauge is .320 or .32 caliber. That covers most of the common rifle calibers, and some of the odd gauges.
Hello Paul
Just read your article on cal. and guage. I have just converted a 16 gauge old Sureshot shot gun into a frontloader. It has a full choke on it which I will have taken out but I want to shoot it as a ball gun as well as a shot gun, so---where do I get a mould and is the mould to be a .662 or smaller? Any information would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Pete
Just read your article on cal. and guage. I have just converted a 16 gauge old Sureshot shot gun into a frontloader. It has a full choke on it which I will have taken out but I want to shoot it as a ball gun as well as a shot gun, so---where do I get a mould and is the mould to be a .662 or smaller? Any information would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Pete
paulvallandigham
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Little Pete: Welcome to the forums. If you measure the choke in that barrel, you can order a mould that is smaller in diameter so that you can shoot PRB out of that choked barrel. 12 gauge slugs, for instance, are purposely sized small enought to fit through any full choke barrel, just to protect the ammo maker from lawsuits for damaging such gun barrels. If you have already removed the choke, then you want to order a mould that will cast a ball that is approx. .020" under bore size. Use a caliper to measure that bore. Then look for moulds. I suspect that Lee Precision makes a mold that will work. If not, try their 20 gauge mould, and use thicker patches, such as denim, or heavy canvas. You may have to use a 16 gauge Over Powder wad to get a good seal on gases, but you should get good accuracy with a round ball out of that barrel out to 50-60 yds, which is more than most people need to kill a whitetail deer anywhere east of Colorado. The bore diameter is necessary for ordering the proper sized wads. If the bore is not .662", you may require a wad that is smaller, or larger to seat and seal properly.
I am still a big fan of Jim Rackham's idea of using Over Shot cards( or " wafers") in shotgun barrels, and I see no reason to not use them under a PRB, either. If you go with his idea, you don't need to order OP wads, cushion wads, and then OS cards. You use only the OS cards for everything. Stack them to give more strength when needed. He uses 4 or 5 of them over the powder to seal the gases, and they separate quickly when leaving the muzzle to drop away from the shot so that they don't ruin the pattern. He uses two OS cards on top of the shot, . Each of the wafers has a hole punched into it with an awl to let air escape, but not the shot, with the hole off center, but not out at the edge where it can cause the edge to fail to seal. Simply align the cards so that no two holes are lined up with each other, and let the air separate the wafers when the leave the muzzle of your gun. Lube the barrel after you seat the load with a cleaning patch that is lubed for that purpose. The lube will keep any residue soft, and prevent it from caking in the barrel. Wipe the barrel with a cleaning patch between loads.
I am still a big fan of Jim Rackham's idea of using Over Shot cards( or " wafers") in shotgun barrels, and I see no reason to not use them under a PRB, either. If you go with his idea, you don't need to order OP wads, cushion wads, and then OS cards. You use only the OS cards for everything. Stack them to give more strength when needed. He uses 4 or 5 of them over the powder to seal the gases, and they separate quickly when leaving the muzzle to drop away from the shot so that they don't ruin the pattern. He uses two OS cards on top of the shot, . Each of the wafers has a hole punched into it with an awl to let air escape, but not the shot, with the hole off center, but not out at the edge where it can cause the edge to fail to seal. Simply align the cards so that no two holes are lined up with each other, and let the air separate the wafers when the leave the muzzle of your gun. Lube the barrel after you seat the load with a cleaning patch that is lubed for that purpose. The lube will keep any residue soft, and prevent it from caking in the barrel. Wipe the barrel with a cleaning patch between loads.
Little Pete: When shooting round balls, ideally they should be about .010 smaller than the bore size. For a 16 guage, this would be about .652 in diameter.
These balls would be loaded in a lubricated cloth patch which is from .012 to .018 thick. I would lean towards the thinner patch for a smoothbore like yours.
The only source that I can find for making a .650 or .652 diameter ball that I know of without spending a small fortune to have special bullet molds made is Dixie Gunworks.
They sell a bullet mold that looks like a large pair of scissors in sizes from .310 to .850 in .001 increments. They are fairly crude but they do work.
Here's a link to them:[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7945[/url]
If you can find a Lee Dealer, you might also get the mold from them (and it will cost you less money than the Dixie Mold.)
You need to look around to see if you can find some pure lead to cast the balls from. You can use harder lead but you will need to use a thinner patch with it and loading might be difficult.
Some sources for pure lead are Plumbing shops and Roofing companies.
By the way, Welcome to the Forum. It's great to have new members posting here.
As your new, I might add that I found the above link by going to our "Members Resources" area, clicking on "Muzzleloading Links", then on "Muzzleloading Weapons".
That will give you a page with all kinds of vendors for everything from Books to Gun manufactures to...
Again, Welcome
zonie
These balls would be loaded in a lubricated cloth patch which is from .012 to .018 thick. I would lean towards the thinner patch for a smoothbore like yours.
The only source that I can find for making a .650 or .652 diameter ball that I know of without spending a small fortune to have special bullet molds made is Dixie Gunworks.
They sell a bullet mold that looks like a large pair of scissors in sizes from .310 to .850 in .001 increments. They are fairly crude but they do work.
Here's a link to them:[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7945[/url]
If you can find a Lee Dealer, you might also get the mold from them (and it will cost you less money than the Dixie Mold.)
You need to look around to see if you can find some pure lead to cast the balls from. You can use harder lead but you will need to use a thinner patch with it and loading might be difficult.
Some sources for pure lead are Plumbing shops and Roofing companies.
By the way, Welcome to the Forum. It's great to have new members posting here.
As your new, I might add that I found the above link by going to our "Members Resources" area, clicking on "Muzzleloading Links", then on "Muzzleloading Weapons".
That will give you a page with all kinds of vendors for everything from Books to Gun manufactures to...
Again, Welcome
zonie
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Joel/Calgary
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Zonie said:
Jeff tanner makes excellent basic mold blocks (you provide the handles) for US$40 in that size range. I got a pair in .648 for my 16ga.
http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.htm
Joel
20 bore=.62, 16 bore=.66, 14 bore=.69, 12 bore is 72 IIRC. Think 75 is 11 bore.
.54 is a 32-33 bore.
Balls from my .662 mould weigh within a few grains of an ounce but it takes a .672 +- bore to shoot them with a heavy patch.
Dan
.54 is a 32-33 bore.
Balls from my .662 mould weigh within a few grains of an ounce but it takes a .672 +- bore to shoot them with a heavy patch.
Dan
Hello Paul
I measured the i.d. of the 16 gauge full choked barrel on the shotgun I converted to a front stuffer and it measured .621. The quickest ball to hand was from my 58 cal and it measured .573. Using a very heavy denim patch, with 70 grains of 2ff, the ball at 25 yards went everywere but at 50 yards created a 12 in circle with about 12 balls. I have to do some refining but this looks as though it will work. What ball size would you suggest for this barrel?
I used my powder measure to toss 70 grains of 2ff and the same measure for #6 shot. Made some O S cardboard wads (1/4" thick) and some cereal box O P cards. A 5/8 punch worked fine. Did not clean after every shot and did not lube barrel. At 25 yards a good solid hit - I am going up to try some clays tonight and we will see.
best to all
I measured the i.d. of the 16 gauge full choked barrel on the shotgun I converted to a front stuffer and it measured .621. The quickest ball to hand was from my 58 cal and it measured .573. Using a very heavy denim patch, with 70 grains of 2ff, the ball at 25 yards went everywere but at 50 yards created a 12 in circle with about 12 balls. I have to do some refining but this looks as though it will work. What ball size would you suggest for this barrel?
I used my powder measure to toss 70 grains of 2ff and the same measure for #6 shot. Made some O S cardboard wads (1/4" thick) and some cereal box O P cards. A 5/8 punch worked fine. Did not clean after every shot and did not lube barrel. At 25 yards a good solid hit - I am going up to try some clays tonight and we will see.
best to all
paulvallandigham
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Well, your 16 gauge gun is really an overbored 20 gauge gun if the I.D. is .621. Buy some .600 round ball from TOTW, and try them with .015 patching.
Do clean between shots, and do lube the barrel after seating the ball. You will need 19 gauge wads for your gun, as its bore is oversized for a 20 gauge. ( nominally .615") For shot I recomment using Jim Rackham's suggested use of OS cards only, over the powder, and also over the shot. Use the OS cards also when shooting RB, putting 2-4 of them over the powder to protect your patching, and scraping the crude from the bore. YOu can also find .595 " diameter balls for your gun, but with it being overbored, I think the .600" balls will work well.
I tried shooting groups your way and got similar results. I now clean between shots and I also lube the barrel. The Chronograph tells me that I am getting much more consistent velocities, and my groups also show it when I do my part. If you want to cut corners and shoot fast, and shoot alot, then buy a suppository shooter in a Semi auto format and blaze away. With a ML, cutting corners to shoot faster just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Slow down and enjoy the precision shooting that a deliberate loading and cleaning procedure gives you with these kinds of guns. Trust me, people will be impressed that you are able to shoot such a gun so accurately, no matter what size groups you eventually achieve. Practice at 25 yds. off-hand to master your stance, hold, mounting procedure, breath control, focus on the front sight, only, squeeze, let off, follow through, and dismount. Practice your cleaning and loading procedure until it is a habit. Only then can you eliminate the occasional flyer. Once your 25 yard scores are getting very tight small groups, then move back to 50 yds, and learn the process all over again. Then to 75, and then out to 100 yds. At each distance, always first shoot groups off a bench rest to determine POI, and groups size. Then try it off your own two legs.
Do clean between shots, and do lube the barrel after seating the ball. You will need 19 gauge wads for your gun, as its bore is oversized for a 20 gauge. ( nominally .615") For shot I recomment using Jim Rackham's suggested use of OS cards only, over the powder, and also over the shot. Use the OS cards also when shooting RB, putting 2-4 of them over the powder to protect your patching, and scraping the crude from the bore. YOu can also find .595 " diameter balls for your gun, but with it being overbored, I think the .600" balls will work well.
I tried shooting groups your way and got similar results. I now clean between shots and I also lube the barrel. The Chronograph tells me that I am getting much more consistent velocities, and my groups also show it when I do my part. If you want to cut corners and shoot fast, and shoot alot, then buy a suppository shooter in a Semi auto format and blaze away. With a ML, cutting corners to shoot faster just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Slow down and enjoy the precision shooting that a deliberate loading and cleaning procedure gives you with these kinds of guns. Trust me, people will be impressed that you are able to shoot such a gun so accurately, no matter what size groups you eventually achieve. Practice at 25 yds. off-hand to master your stance, hold, mounting procedure, breath control, focus on the front sight, only, squeeze, let off, follow through, and dismount. Practice your cleaning and loading procedure until it is a habit. Only then can you eliminate the occasional flyer. Once your 25 yard scores are getting very tight small groups, then move back to 50 yds, and learn the process all over again. Then to 75, and then out to 100 yds. At each distance, always first shoot groups off a bench rest to determine POI, and groups size. Then try it off your own two legs.
Hello Paul
Thanks for the professional readout and the great encouragement, it is really appreaciated. I hied on up to the range last night but the shotgun boys are not the same as the Monoshee boys and so when I got in line and fired of a round of black powder there was a bit of a prissy little scream. I dropped in to see a buddy and we are going back up with a hand thrower and some clays. The shotgun boys are a good bunch but the disciple is quite different.
Lee has a .600 round ball mold and I will try phoning them today -- the other things you mentioned I will discuss with the fellows at the black powder store I deal with. Black pwd shooting of any type is just so aggravating it is wonderful but this smooth bore has really caught my attention. Again thanks for serious imput. Best to you. :grin:
Thanks for the professional readout and the great encouragement, it is really appreaciated. I hied on up to the range last night but the shotgun boys are not the same as the Monoshee boys and so when I got in line and fired of a round of black powder there was a bit of a prissy little scream. I dropped in to see a buddy and we are going back up with a hand thrower and some clays. The shotgun boys are a good bunch but the disciple is quite different.
Lee has a .600 round ball mold and I will try phoning them today -- the other things you mentioned I will discuss with the fellows at the black powder store I deal with. Black pwd shooting of any type is just so aggravating it is wonderful but this smooth bore has really caught my attention. Again thanks for serious imput. Best to you. :grin:
paulvallandigham
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Little Pete: Why not first order a small quantity of balls from TOTW, and try them before buying a mold? My brother has bought both .600 and .595 balls for his gun, and is trying them both using different thicknesses of patching to see what kind of consistency he gets over his chronograph. He will then settle on his patch material, and then order a mold for the diameter he needs.
Otherwise you get stuck with a mold you don't want or need.
Otherwise you get stuck with a mold you don't want or need.
Joel/Calgary
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Little Pete said:
Was that at the muzzle of the full choke or back in the barrel past the choke? That looks about right for a very full choke (as in pre-shot-protector full choke) on a nominally .662 16ga bore. If that is choke rather than bore diameter, the 5/8" wads probably are not sealing the bore. Your wads need to be a couple of thou larger than bore diameter. The trick to loading these through the choke is to use more than one (how many depends on what your are using), then for each one, fold it slightly and put it sideways through the choke, then turn it fold-towards-the-muzzle and use the button on your ramrod to straighten it and flatten it back out in the bore. Just make sure the folds cross each other rather than line up, so they stiffen each other. For some folks, a couple of stiff felt wads do the trick instead of cards, and load easier.
While you still have the choke in the barrel, you'll probably get better results with ball if you use your regular wads underneath the patched ball.
Joel
:hmm: Hello again Paul
Hope you don't mind me tapping into you some more. I ordered some 16 gauge wads and received a bag of power piston wads for use in plastic shells. Going on the basis that there are no stupid questions just ignorant people, can these be used in my 16 gauge front stuffer? Maybe I am dating myself but I was thinking the wads should have looked like a 1/2 inch fibre type wad? If that is so I can just return these and look for the right ones.
I was also thinking about a chronograph as they have dropped considerably in price as compared to yesteryear. Can you use them with a regular black powder rifle and the smooth bore? Other than that I am in pretty good shape. The shotgun is pumping out a pretty good pattern with #6 shot and my mold for the 600 gr round ball is on its way. Again thanks for you help.
Hope you don't mind me tapping into you some more. I ordered some 16 gauge wads and received a bag of power piston wads for use in plastic shells. Going on the basis that there are no stupid questions just ignorant people, can these be used in my 16 gauge front stuffer? Maybe I am dating myself but I was thinking the wads should have looked like a 1/2 inch fibre type wad? If that is so I can just return these and look for the right ones.
I was also thinking about a chronograph as they have dropped considerably in price as compared to yesteryear. Can you use them with a regular black powder rifle and the smooth bore? Other than that I am in pretty good shape. The shotgun is pumping out a pretty good pattern with #6 shot and my mold for the 600 gr round ball is on its way. Again thanks for you help.
paulvallandigham
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The modern plastic shotcups will fit down your 16 gauge barrel, but they probably won't seal gase. Because those plastic wads go into plastic casings, they are often actually 17 gauge in diameter, and when you try to use them in brass casings, or in a ML shotgun, the cups are too loose in the barrel to seal. You can use an OVERPOWDER wad under them, and sometimes get pretty good patterns.
I would suggest returning them, and ordering the correct wads. Always measure the bore of your gun. Then order the correct sized wads. The wads should be slightly oversize in order to give a good friction fit. Check Track of the Woff's site on line, to see what the wads look like, and what they measure. That way you can order the correct wad you want. I can't tell from your last post if you are wanting an OP wad, or a cushion wad, or a Over Shot (OS) wad for that 16 gauge.
There are some prelubed cushion wads on the market that appear grey in color- almost grey blue. I have some in 20 gauge. I use a 1`9 gauge OP wad, then put down a 20 ga. prelubed cushion wad, then a 19 ga. OS card, the shot, and another OS card to keep the shot in place. Because the cushion wads expand when they collapse under the pressure of firing, they lube the barrel just fine. By using the small sized cushion wad, its much easier to load them down my barrel. I don't need a hole in them to let air escape. With the OP and OS cards, I do need to put a hole in them to let the air escape, or otherwise fight the air pressure under the wad pushing back on the wad and my RR as I am trying to seat the darn things!
Yes, you can use a chronograph with a BP smoothbore. If you are trying to test shot loads, I suggest you make a package of the shot, but making a tube the size of your bore, enclosing the shot at both ends, so that you have a " slug " of shot the same weight as you want to shoot. That way, the shot is not going to spread out and damage any part of your chronograph. Yet, you get the MV of the load of shot you want to use, in combination with the powder charge you select, and the loading components you intend to use with the shot charge. The only thing different is that you enclose the shot in a paper " Cartridge" so the shot does not begin to open up, and pose a danger to your machine or screens. Set the chronograph 15-20 feet from the muzzle of the gun, and shoot off a rest so you don't flinch and shoot the machine. When You have established the velocity and determined how to load the shotgun for consistency of velocity, shot after shot, then go to the patterning board, and test for pattern sizes and any other problems. When you finalize a load at the patterning board, go back and run it over the chronograph, packaging that shot again, to verify the velocit. Some guys wait until they have a load that patterns well before they run it over their chronograph to get the velocity. Since I think you get better groups in a cylinder bore gun if you keep the velocity below the Speed of Sound( 1100 fps) I think knowing what the velocity of a load is before spending time counting holes in paper targets to establish the pattern makes more sense.
I am sure that other's opinions will vary.
I would suggest returning them, and ordering the correct wads. Always measure the bore of your gun. Then order the correct sized wads. The wads should be slightly oversize in order to give a good friction fit. Check Track of the Woff's site on line, to see what the wads look like, and what they measure. That way you can order the correct wad you want. I can't tell from your last post if you are wanting an OP wad, or a cushion wad, or a Over Shot (OS) wad for that 16 gauge.
There are some prelubed cushion wads on the market that appear grey in color- almost grey blue. I have some in 20 gauge. I use a 1`9 gauge OP wad, then put down a 20 ga. prelubed cushion wad, then a 19 ga. OS card, the shot, and another OS card to keep the shot in place. Because the cushion wads expand when they collapse under the pressure of firing, they lube the barrel just fine. By using the small sized cushion wad, its much easier to load them down my barrel. I don't need a hole in them to let air escape. With the OP and OS cards, I do need to put a hole in them to let the air escape, or otherwise fight the air pressure under the wad pushing back on the wad and my RR as I am trying to seat the darn things!
Yes, you can use a chronograph with a BP smoothbore. If you are trying to test shot loads, I suggest you make a package of the shot, but making a tube the size of your bore, enclosing the shot at both ends, so that you have a " slug " of shot the same weight as you want to shoot. That way, the shot is not going to spread out and damage any part of your chronograph. Yet, you get the MV of the load of shot you want to use, in combination with the powder charge you select, and the loading components you intend to use with the shot charge. The only thing different is that you enclose the shot in a paper " Cartridge" so the shot does not begin to open up, and pose a danger to your machine or screens. Set the chronograph 15-20 feet from the muzzle of the gun, and shoot off a rest so you don't flinch and shoot the machine. When You have established the velocity and determined how to load the shotgun for consistency of velocity, shot after shot, then go to the patterning board, and test for pattern sizes and any other problems. When you finalize a load at the patterning board, go back and run it over the chronograph, packaging that shot again, to verify the velocit. Some guys wait until they have a load that patterns well before they run it over their chronograph to get the velocity. Since I think you get better groups in a cylinder bore gun if you keep the velocity below the Speed of Sound( 1100 fps) I think knowing what the velocity of a load is before spending time counting holes in paper targets to establish the pattern makes more sense.
I am sure that other's opinions will vary.
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