German backpacks

[Treestalker]

Someone suggested I build a transitional Germanic rifle and use a backpack for trekking with it. What does a traditional German backpack look like? Geo.

 

[coloradoclyde]

op:

 

[BillinOregon]

Treestalker, Stophel will likely be along with an abundance of links to period paintings and illustrations.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Anyone feel free to correct me....But, a "transitional Germanic rifle" would have been built by an immigrant German gunsmith in Pennsylvania....There's nothing to indicate that a backpack in Pennsylvania would have been of Germanic design....
Narrowing down the finer points and details of the situation/persona would be helpful.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

On the other hand IF the rifleman was a German transitioning to the American frontier, and carrying a transitional rifle...., :haha:

The snapsack has been demonstrated as pretty universal from the Renaissance through the first half of the 18th century. A rucksack (which is a cinch type sack where the two shoulder straps are attached to the cinch cord at the top, and the bottoms are attached to the bottom of the bag by thongs or buttons) is such a tried and true Alpine pack that they were still in use essentially unchanged at the beginning of the 20th century. :wink:

LD

 

[satx78247]

I'd guess that a German immigrant to the USA might well have brought his pack with him to the "new country".
OR
He could have bought whatever he could find here??

Period documents seem to indicate that the majority of immigrants bought whatever they needed based on what was available & mainly what was CHEAP.

yours, satx

 

[JS60]

Anyone feel free to correct me....But, a "transitional Germanic rifle" would have been built by an immigrant German gunsmith in Pennsylvania....There's nothing to indicate that a backpack in Pennsylvania would have been of Germanic design....
Narrowing down the finer points and details of the situation/persona would be helpful.

Perhaps the original source was meaning a transitional rifle like was built in the A. Albrecht style early on at the Christian Springs Moravian shop? .... That would be a pre revolutionary longrifle, a definite Germanic influenced transitional piece, and a forerunner of the Dickert school.
A backpack of that time and place (IMHO) could also be a common knapsack type, and whether it was a straight envelope style or gusseted would be at the pleasure of the craftsman, (unless said craftsman was required to only carry military issue, in which case it would be the envelope type).

Hope this helps some.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Period documents seem to indicate that the majority of immigrants bought whatever they needed based on what was available & mainly what was CHEAP

Ah, but that does not necessarily describe the form of the item that was bought, eh?

If the Englishman trader bought packs from a German fellow who made them, would they be knapsacks or rucksacks in the Englishman's records? Did the person making them for the English trader make them to the trader's specs, but when making such items for sale by himself, did he have a different pattern?

Was the item bought made by the user, or were the raw materials bought and then the finished item was fashioned into what the person knew to be a familiar design, which would have been cheaper, still?

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Here are some examples from Maryland Archives:

June 25th, 1776

Ordered That the Treasurer of the Western Shore pay to Colo Wm Buchanan ten pounds, two shillings and six pence for a large rifle.


July 15, 1776

That the said Treasurer pay to Oliver Whiddon five Pounds for a Rifle.

Aug 27, 1776

Ordered That said Treasurer pay to Colo J: C: Hall five pounds for a Rifle.

Two of the rifles are five pounds, but the "large" rifle [a wall gun?] is ten pounds and change, and does "large" mean longer, or bigger caliber than what they thought of as the norm, or both?

Why are these fellows being paid? Are they the builders or the owners, selling them to the Committee, or are they being repaid for privately owned equipment damaged in the first days of the AWI?? Maryland appears to be the only state that enlisted men with privately owned rifles, AND also owned rifles which were issued to military units.


LD

 

[tenngun]

What's hc for the time gives you some choices for sure. From a personal experince I have found a snap sack to be the most comfortable to carry. And it's is common 1750s time frame.

 

[Nativearizonan]

This is not about German packs, but is an interesting discussion on early (k)snapsacks including some period examples of English and French designs.

The one carried hobo style makes some sense to me, as a pack with a single strap is always going to end up with the heaviest part down at your hip, no matter how you start out, unless you constantly hold the strap with your hand. The stick carried pack also need nothing sewed, just a piece of any cloth or leather pulled up into a bundle and tied.
http://webpages.charter.net/apples/costume/snapsack-Saguto.pdf

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The Woodsrunner's Diary has some good period artwork images of snapsacks and packs and a few years later some additional images of snapsacks.

LD

 

[Black Hand]

Someone suggested I build a transitional Germanic rifle and use a backpack for trekking with it. What does a traditional German backpack look like?

Not certain what one has to do with the other?

There were periods ways to carry gear that included: snapsack, knapsack, newly-invented knapsack, haversack, market wallets and the blanket roll. Find one that fits with your persona, occupation and time-frame....

 

[Karl Helweg]

Germans have used a willow "backpack basket", sometimes called a Tun,- for centuries. There are some eccentric off-the-gridders here who still use them for shopping when they hike into town. http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2014/10/pack-baskets.html

 

[Stophel]

I'm late to the party...

I have been completely out of 18th century for years now. I need to get back in. One of the first things I need to do is construct a good rucksack.

I have looked and looked, trying to find good 18th century German images of rucksacks (two-strap backpacks), and have found some...none of them really good. The classic German/European rucksack is a big drawstring bag with two shoulder straps. These go back at least to late medieval times, and continue in use to this day (modernized, of course, but still essentially the same). However, I still cannot find one single 18th century German image of one. Regardless, this is what I intend to make for myself (I wish I could justify a frame... :grin: ). There is a fairly well-known 18th century French image showing one, but since the recent Photobucket BS, I can't post it here very easily. Wait, here, I found one I can post:

I do have one or two 18th century German images of very nondescript LARGE square-ish two-strap backpacks. Can't tell much with them, unfortunately.

What I do see, in HUGE numbers, are snapsacks. Everywhere. Men, women, and children with snapsacks. I've made a couple snapsacks, and I like them, BUT, I have decided that they're just not for me. After a while, they hurt me. The single strap presses on a certain spot on my shoulder, I guess it presses a nerve, and I will get quite sore from it. So, I'm back to two-strap packs (the straps ride on a different spot on my shoulders, so no nerve soreness).

What I have NOT ever seen in any 18th century German images are "wallets" (which is called "Quersack" in German. I have seen these from much later, but not 18th century), or any kind of haversack-like shoulder bag (civilian, anyway, and I don't really recall any military either, but that's not ever been my focus). I have also seen what is basically a double snapsack (one front, one back) with drawstring closures at the top, and attached together at the bottom (these are also called a "quersack", which is probably a pretty generic term).

 

[coloradoclyde]

Just add shoulder straps to a flour sack

 

[coloradoclyde]

If you look closely at this picture, almost everyone is wearing some kind of pack in the background....

Market wallets, basket packs, two strap snapsacks, haver type sacks....All in one picture.

 

[tenngun]

I do think they were just a bunch of ren fair types back then and didn’t care at all about being hc/pc. Should they need to pack something they just made something up and fiddled with it as needed. Snap sack handy, but your load a little heavy, throw another strap on. Your stuff lost and your haversack empty, stuff some of your things in to your haversack. Liberate a basket, throw on a couple of straps or tie it to a few branches, ect

 

[Stophel]

I also see images of "bundles"... stuff bundled up in a cloth, tied up with string, and shoulder straps attached. Some bundles rectangular, some even round.
http://media.gettyimages.com/illus...ta-croce-in-florence-illustration-id479658149

 

[George]

Should they need to pack something they just made something up and fiddled with it as needed.

The Pennsylvania Gazette
January 26, 1769
RUN away from his bail, ....had on, when he went away, a blue broadcloth coat, with mohair buttons, a red plush waistcoat, leather breeches, and a fine hat; he also had other clothes, of a light ash colour, lined with striped linsey, the coat had no lining in the sleeves; these he had packed up in a pair of check trowsers;

Spence