German Target Pistols?

[cal.43]

just to make that clear,

And BTW, DResden was not in Germany when these pistols were made. It was then, and still is, in Saxony, although that is now classed as a 'land/state' of the current Federal Republic of Germany. Germany per se did not exist until the Unification, which took place between 18 Aug 1866 and 18 Jan 1871.

the Heilige römische Reich deutscher Nation ended in 1804 when the last Emperor laid his Crown down,
in 1815 the Deutscher Bund was established and in 1871 das Deutsche Reich was established. The Kingdom of Saxony was allways part of Germany .

 

[TFoley]

Thank you, TFoley. I appreciate your input. I have learned so much since posting this. The case is veneered Mahogany and not in good repair. The interior is fine. How does this affect value?

Better is indeed better. They would undoubtedly be fully-repaired before being offered as a lot on any reputable auction site. The rather short barrels suggest to me that they are what are called 'travelling pistols' from the days before railways became entirely commonplace. Target pistols, from the likes of LePage and Kuechenreuter tended to have barrels ca. 10" or so to offer the maximum accuracy. What calibre are they?

 

[TFoley]

just to make that clear,

the Heilige römische Reich deutscher Nation ended in 1804 when the last Emperor laid his Crown down,
in 1815 the Deutscher Bund was established and in 1871 das Deutsche Reich was established. The Kingdom of Saxony was allways part of Germany .

The Kingdom of Saxony (German: Königreich Sachsen), lasting from 1806 to 1918, was an independent member of a number of historical confederacies in Napoleonic through post-Napoleonic Germany. The kingdom was formed from the Electorate of Saxony. From 1871, it was part of the German Empire. It became a free state in the era of Weimar Republic in 1918 after the end of World War I and the abdication of King Frederick Augustus III of Saxony. Its capital was the city of Dresden, and its modern successor state is the Free State of Saxony.

 

[andy52]

Better is indeed better. They would undoubtedly be fully-repaired before being offered as a lot on any reputable auction site. The rather short barrels suggest to me that they are what are called 'travelling pistols' from the days before railways became entirely commonplace. Target pistols, from the likes of LePage and Kuechenreuter tended to have barrels ca. 10" or so to offer the maximum accuracy. What calibre are they?

My thoughts also, the set of LePage duelers I just sold had 10-inch barrels.
Those are a very nice brace of pistols, are they serialized?

 

[TFoley]

My thoughts also, the set of LePage duelers I just sold had 10-inch barrels.
Those are a very nice brace of pistols, are they serialized?

You've reminded to to ask for more photos....

 

[andy52]

You've reminded to to ask for more photos....

Yes, we love pictures...

 

[routefood]

My thoughts also, the set of LePage duelers I just sold had 10-inch barrels.
Those are a very nice brace of pistols, are they serialized?

I will check for serial #.

 

[routefood]

Yes, we love pictures...

I will provide more close-up pics soon!

 

[cal.43]

The Kingdom of Saxony (German: Königreich Sachsen), lasting from 1806 to 1918, was an independent member of a number of historical confederacies in Napoleonic through post-Napoleonic Germany. The kingdom was formed from the Electorate of Saxony. From 1871, it was part of the German Empire. It became a free state in the era of Weimar Republic in 1918 after the end of World War I and the abdication of King Frederick Augustus III of Saxony. Its capital was the city of Dresden, and its modern successor state is the Free State of Saxony.

from the German wiki

Das Königreich Sachsen entstand aus dem Kurfürstentum Sachsen und existierte von 1806 bis 1918. Es gehörte von 1806 bis 1815 dem Rheinbund und von 1815 bis 1866 dem Deutschen Bund an. Seit 1867 war es Bundesstaat des Norddeutschen Bundes und von 1871 bis 1918 des Deutschen Reiches.

What is true that there was no such thing like a German National State before 1871,

from The German Wiki

Am Ersten Weltkrieg nahm letztmals eine eigene sächsische Armee im Rahmen des deutschen Heeres teil. Im Zuge der Novemberrevolution wurde Sachsen im Herbst 1918 Freistaat im Deutschen Reich, das nun nach der Verfassung von 1919 Weimarer Republik genannt wurde (siehe: Geschichte Sachsens → Freistaat Sachsen (1918 bis 1933)). Mit der Gleichschaltung der Länder 1934 verlor der Freistaat Sachsen den Großteil seiner politischen Kompetenzen zugunsten der in Sachsen territorial deckungsgleichen NSDAP-Gaustruktur, wurde aber wie die übrigen Länder im Reich nicht offiziell aufgelöst. Nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg wurde das Land durch die sowjetische Besatzungsmacht rekonstituiert und um die deutsch gebliebenen Teile der preußischen Provinz Schlesien erweitert. 1952 wurden die Länder im Rahmen der DDR-Verwaltungsreform aufgelöst. Am 3. Oktober 1990 entstand zugleich mit der deutschen Wiedervereinigung das Bundesland Sachsen.[21] Es umfasste die Bezirke Dresden, Karl-Marx-Stadt/Chemnitz und Leipzig (ohne die Landkreise Altenburg und Schmölln, aber zuzüglich der Landkreise Hoyerswerda und Weißwasser) der ehemaligen Deutschen Demokratischen Republik.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Thanks for doing the leg work Old Smoky. I really appreciate it! Did he just make the one pair?

I doubt that. He was active for 20 years...

 

[NeilMacleod]

Awesome!!

 

[Relic shooter]

Thank you, TFoley. I appreciate your input. I have learned so much since posting this. The case is veneered Mahogany and not in good repair. The interior is fine. How does this affect value?

We haven't seen your case but with todays fantastic wide range of adhesives I'm betting the case can be restored.
Possibly locate an individual who advertises restoring fine antiques in your area.

 

[routefood]

We haven't seen your case but with todays fantastic wide range of adhesives I'm betting the case can be restored.
Possibly locate an individual who advertises restoring fine antiques in your area.

Good idea! Thank you!

 

[routefood]

I will provide more close-up pics soon!

 

[OldSmoky1967]

just to make that clear,

the Heilige römische Reich deutscher Nation ended in 1804 when the last Emperor laid his Crown down,
in 1815 the Deutscher Bund was established and in 1871 das Deutsche Reich was established. The Kingdom of Saxony was allways part of Germany .

Excellent post for the sake of clarification. Great to remind us.

 

[shorthair]

I was gifted this cased set of pistols made by Carl Ulbrich of Desden, Germany. I'm assuming mid-nineteenth century? Are they authentic? Are they valuable? I'll defer to the experts.
Thanks in advance!
John R.
Southeastern Pa.

Oh boy more gun ****!!!!

 

[routefood]

Oh boy more gun ****!!!!

 

[sheriff john]

If the set were mine, I would consult with a bona-fide antique arms appraiser/restoration expert to assess the value of the set and gain advice as to what (if any) work needs to be done to stabilize every part of the set.

Also, if possible, try to document as well as possible exactly when and where the set was acquired originally. We are entrusted with items during our lifetime that will be passed on to a time we will not see. Once true history is gone, it can never be replaced. Enjoy owning the set. Won' be another - ever.

 

[routefood]

If the set were mine, I would consult with a bona-fide antique arms appraiser/restoration expert to assess the value of the set and gain advice as to what (if any) work needs to be done to stabilize every part of the set.

Also, if possible, try to document as well as possible exactly when and where the set was acquired originally. We are entrusted with items during our lifetime that will be passed on to a time we will not see. Once true history is gone, it can never be replaced. Enjoy owning the set. Won' be another - ever.

Thank you! I will consult an appraiser.

 

[Bayer1957]

In 2019, a few pistols from this gunsmith were at auction in Germany.

https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/auctions/lot/id/5208