54Jnoll, WOW :shocking:what great color. I have heard a lot of good things about LMF stains but I had no idea they would do the with the stripes. Thanks for the pic's seems like this would be a safer way to go without the hazadous materials. Now I have 2 procedures to use, LMF and nails and vinegar. Thanks again for all the information. This site sure is a great place to be :thumbsup:
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Gettin' the Stripes
- Thread starter Griz
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Tony Lucero
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I've had good luck with photobucket for free picture hosting. :imo: :results:
We will give it a try I just signed up and reposted the pics. Seems like a easy to use site. I signed up for Hunt 101 and as usual they are down.
I used to have Sony Image Station but they got down on posting pics stored there at other web sites so they turned out to be a bust after having them for a year. This one looks ok. Thanks for the tip. Jim Griz you should be able to see them now. Got some work done but a long way to go.I like the peep I have on the rifle barrel but I think the front globe has to go and put a fiber optic front sight on for hunting as I think the globe will be too dark at dusk. I have a fiber optic on my 30/30 Mod 94 with a peep on the back and it is great at dusk and dark days. Jim
From:
The Bedford County Rifle and Its Makers
by Calvin Hetrick
Page 21
The Last Of His Craft
(1949)
In the spring of the present year it was this writer's pleasure to pay a visit to the last of the Bedford County gunsmiths, Dolfus M. Drake, of Everett, PA, who on August 18th will celebrate his 94th birthday, probably the oldest living gunsmith of the old muzzle loading school.
When I approached his shop on a pleasant April afternoon, my nostrils were assailed by the pungent odor of nitric acid in a glass container outside the shop. After introducing myself I asked the venerable gentlemam what he intended to do with the acid. He explained that he used nitric acid in which iron nails are dissolved for the purpose of darkening the stocks of rifles. The acid was bubbling furiously. Later when chemical action had ceased, the acid would be applied to the wood and the stock held over a fire, after wgich the wood would be the rich brown color of a ripe chestnut. (It works, boys. I've tried it many times. (C.H.)
What Dolfus Drake was doing was making a solution of ferric nitrate (nitrate of iron) in spent acid.
Iron was added until the acid was nearly totally spent.
This nitrate of iron was one of a number of acid-metal dyes commonly known as mineral pigment dyes. This nitrate of iron was used to dye cotton fabric a color we now call Colonial Buff. Previously called Nankeen Buff.
This mineral pigment dye was also used to dye leather and other protein based goods such as wool or horn.
After the nitrate of iron stain is applied it must be converted to a water-insolble form. This may be done by gentle heating or through the use of a mild caustic such as potash.
Depending on the application method and the way in which it is converted to the water-insoluble form it may give almost any color commonly found in natural iron oxide pigments.
Last week I made up a half gallon of nitrate of iron solution for a buddy who does powder horns with it. Giving them a golden yellow color.
When used on a curly maple gun stock this nitrate of iron stain will give both the various iron oxide colors AND the black curl color in the wood.
If you combined iron with tannic or gallic acid you get a color that ranges from brownish-black to a jet-black color.
The "curl" in the wood picks up a lot of iron solution during stain application. Once the stock is finished you have tannic acid natural to the maple wood migrating along the grain as the stock picks up and gives off moisture. When the tannic acid is carried to the point where the stain is you have the tannic acid blackening the iron. This process occurrs mainly in the "curl" which is end grain of the wood.
Up until steel pen points were introduced during the Civil War the common writing ink had been a mixture of powdered ferrous sulfate and gallic acid (from nut galls). When mixed with water it produced a black iron/tannate in the water.
Since the coloring material is essentially iron oxide or an iron oxide/tannate complex it will not fade from exposure to sunlight. As I joke, rust don't fade!
In the wood stain you have no real live acid in the nitrate of iron solution. This stain does not come back to haunt you in rusted metal parts on the rifles on which it is used.
The Bedford County Rifle and Its Makers
by Calvin Hetrick
Page 21
The Last Of His Craft
(1949)
In the spring of the present year it was this writer's pleasure to pay a visit to the last of the Bedford County gunsmiths, Dolfus M. Drake, of Everett, PA, who on August 18th will celebrate his 94th birthday, probably the oldest living gunsmith of the old muzzle loading school.
When I approached his shop on a pleasant April afternoon, my nostrils were assailed by the pungent odor of nitric acid in a glass container outside the shop. After introducing myself I asked the venerable gentlemam what he intended to do with the acid. He explained that he used nitric acid in which iron nails are dissolved for the purpose of darkening the stocks of rifles. The acid was bubbling furiously. Later when chemical action had ceased, the acid would be applied to the wood and the stock held over a fire, after wgich the wood would be the rich brown color of a ripe chestnut. (It works, boys. I've tried it many times. (C.H.)
What Dolfus Drake was doing was making a solution of ferric nitrate (nitrate of iron) in spent acid.
Iron was added until the acid was nearly totally spent.
This nitrate of iron was one of a number of acid-metal dyes commonly known as mineral pigment dyes. This nitrate of iron was used to dye cotton fabric a color we now call Colonial Buff. Previously called Nankeen Buff.
This mineral pigment dye was also used to dye leather and other protein based goods such as wool or horn.
After the nitrate of iron stain is applied it must be converted to a water-insolble form. This may be done by gentle heating or through the use of a mild caustic such as potash.
Depending on the application method and the way in which it is converted to the water-insoluble form it may give almost any color commonly found in natural iron oxide pigments.
Last week I made up a half gallon of nitrate of iron solution for a buddy who does powder horns with it. Giving them a golden yellow color.
When used on a curly maple gun stock this nitrate of iron stain will give both the various iron oxide colors AND the black curl color in the wood.
If you combined iron with tannic or gallic acid you get a color that ranges from brownish-black to a jet-black color.
The "curl" in the wood picks up a lot of iron solution during stain application. Once the stock is finished you have tannic acid natural to the maple wood migrating along the grain as the stock picks up and gives off moisture. When the tannic acid is carried to the point where the stain is you have the tannic acid blackening the iron. This process occurrs mainly in the "curl" which is end grain of the wood.
Up until steel pen points were introduced during the Civil War the common writing ink had been a mixture of powdered ferrous sulfate and gallic acid (from nut galls). When mixed with water it produced a black iron/tannate in the water.
Since the coloring material is essentially iron oxide or an iron oxide/tannate complex it will not fade from exposure to sunlight. As I joke, rust don't fade!
In the wood stain you have no real live acid in the nitrate of iron solution. This stain does not come back to haunt you in rusted metal parts on the rifles on which it is used.
Dutch, amazing stuff. Thanks for taking the time to write this. This must be the same stuff Hershel House uses in his video about rifle building. He desolves steel wool in an acid to stain his stock but it comes out a yellow/orange color. Looked pretty scary to me especially when he wiped it on wothout using rubber gloves :shocking: Tooooo scary for me.
does this acid become safe after the nails are totally desolved? or am I reading this wrong? I also wonder if it will soak into a powder horn or will it just do the surface and can be scratched off?
does this acid become safe after the nails are totally desolved? or am I reading this wrong? I also wonder if it will soak into a powder horn or will it just do the surface and can be scratched off?
Griz,
The ferric nitrate solution is dangerous only if you were to drink it.
If it gets on the hands you feel nothing since it is no longer highly corrosive. It does a nice job of staining one's hands bright yellow to orange color. And it must wear off.
In old horns it will depend if the dye was done in a small vat or used simply as a surface dye.
After scrapi8ng and loose abrasive polishing I would wipe the horn down with alcohol. Either denatured grain alcohol or rubbing alcohol. This removes any traces of skin oil and also "opens" the "grain" in the horn. The dye solution is simply swabbed onto the horn. The horn is then hung in a damp corner of the basement. The stain solution will penetrate into the horn a bit, depending on how dense the horn is. Since the ferric nitrate is unstable it will auto-convert to ferric oxide in a day or two. The exact shade of yellow produced will depend on the humidity at the time the ferric nitrate is auto-oxidizing to ferric oxide. At very low humidity the color produced is more of an orange than yellow.
After the dye has converted to the oxide form you take some canola oil and rub the horn down good with it on a cloth. Canola oil is actually rapeseed oil. This is described in a book from Germany in the 1860's dealing with staining horn.
The ferric nitrate solution is dangerous only if you were to drink it.
If it gets on the hands you feel nothing since it is no longer highly corrosive. It does a nice job of staining one's hands bright yellow to orange color. And it must wear off.
In old horns it will depend if the dye was done in a small vat or used simply as a surface dye.
After scrapi8ng and loose abrasive polishing I would wipe the horn down with alcohol. Either denatured grain alcohol or rubbing alcohol. This removes any traces of skin oil and also "opens" the "grain" in the horn. The dye solution is simply swabbed onto the horn. The horn is then hung in a damp corner of the basement. The stain solution will penetrate into the horn a bit, depending on how dense the horn is. Since the ferric nitrate is unstable it will auto-convert to ferric oxide in a day or two. The exact shade of yellow produced will depend on the humidity at the time the ferric nitrate is auto-oxidizing to ferric oxide. At very low humidity the color produced is more of an orange than yellow.
After the dye has converted to the oxide form you take some canola oil and rub the horn down good with it on a cloth. Canola oil is actually rapeseed oil. This is described in a book from Germany in the 1860's dealing with staining horn.
Guest
This is the same chemical under the traditional name of Aqua Fortis.
The nitric acid is becomming dificult to obtain in some areas and other acids are being substituted.
I have read of some experimentation with muriec acid (brick acid), but do not know how well it works.
Almost all of them will work to some extent, but remember, they change color over the course of time, often going dark or into a green tint.
The nitric acid is becomming dificult to obtain in some areas and other acids are being substituted.
I have read of some experimentation with muriec acid (brick acid), but do not know how well it works.
Almost all of them will work to some extent, but remember, they change color over the course of time, often going dark or into a green tint.
Nitric acid had once been known as aqua fortis. The commercial product available until recently was a mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acid with some iron added "for color".
Digesting iron in hydrochloric (muriatic) acid gives mainly red colors. It does not work nearly as well as nitric acid in which iron had been reacted to produce ferric nitrate. The term nitrate of iron came into use in the early years of the 19th century. Prior to that one VA gunsmith had advertised that he stained his stocks with aqua fortis. It was assumed that the reader understood that the acid contained iron. Prior to the early 19th century the concept was that the nitric acid simply dissolved the iron rather than turning it into another chemical combination.
Experience over the years with nitrate of iron on curly maple gunstocks has shown that the stain color will darken a bit with aging. As any tannic acid in the wood comes in contact with the stain in the surface regions of the wood. The amount of darkening will be determined by the amount of tannic acid in the wood and the concentration of the nitrate of iron stain solution when it was applied.
Green tint in stocks does not occur with the nitrate of iron stain.
Green tints have been seen when a mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acid, with iron added, was used to stain a stock.
Chromic acid is noted for giving green stocks in a high percentage of the gun stocks on which it has been used.
I used chromic acid for 30 years in a lab. Used to clean traces of organic materials out of laboratory glassware. The chromic acid was discarded when it began to turn grass green in color. The change to a grass green color indicated that the acid was spent, or exhausted. The fact that the color of spent chromic acid is bright green is why some chromic acid gunstocks turn green after a few years. The chromic acid is applied and then the stock is hit with high heat. The acid chemically chars the wood. In the process the acid is spent. It remains in the wood when the stock is given a finish. As the stock "breathes" with changes in humidity the spent chromic acid winds up trapped under the finish. The intensity of the green color will change depending on whether the stock is picking up moisture from the air or releasing moisture back to the air.
Digesting iron in hydrochloric (muriatic) acid gives mainly red colors. It does not work nearly as well as nitric acid in which iron had been reacted to produce ferric nitrate. The term nitrate of iron came into use in the early years of the 19th century. Prior to that one VA gunsmith had advertised that he stained his stocks with aqua fortis. It was assumed that the reader understood that the acid contained iron. Prior to the early 19th century the concept was that the nitric acid simply dissolved the iron rather than turning it into another chemical combination.
Experience over the years with nitrate of iron on curly maple gunstocks has shown that the stain color will darken a bit with aging. As any tannic acid in the wood comes in contact with the stain in the surface regions of the wood. The amount of darkening will be determined by the amount of tannic acid in the wood and the concentration of the nitrate of iron stain solution when it was applied.
Green tint in stocks does not occur with the nitrate of iron stain.
Green tints have been seen when a mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acid, with iron added, was used to stain a stock.
Chromic acid is noted for giving green stocks in a high percentage of the gun stocks on which it has been used.
I used chromic acid for 30 years in a lab. Used to clean traces of organic materials out of laboratory glassware. The chromic acid was discarded when it began to turn grass green in color. The change to a grass green color indicated that the acid was spent, or exhausted. The fact that the color of spent chromic acid is bright green is why some chromic acid gunstocks turn green after a few years. The chromic acid is applied and then the stock is hit with high heat. The acid chemically chars the wood. In the process the acid is spent. It remains in the wood when the stock is given a finish. As the stock "breathes" with changes in humidity the spent chromic acid winds up trapped under the finish. The intensity of the green color will change depending on whether the stock is picking up moisture from the air or releasing moisture back to the air.
I am going to give Ghost's stain a try I used some Aquafortis I got from Track of the wolf and was not that satisfied with it as it was hard to heat the stock evenly and you guys are right my stock is turning darker. I like the idea of applying the stain (Ghost's stain idea) while whiskering the stock and then using linseed oil on it to bring out the figure. Jim
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