Getting back in the black powder game

[Matt85]

Thinking about getting back in the black powder game and I'd like to start out with my favorite style of BP firearm, the good old smooth bore firelock! I have always had a thing for French muskets and at one point I bought a rather crude Indian made replica. That Indian made gun was so much fun that after all these years I still miss it (proved to be unsafe and had to return it). Some of my old co-workers still call me "Musket Matt" after I showed up to a modern rifle shoot with that crude but reliable musket.

I want to do it right this time, no more cheap Indian guns. I'm looking at three Pedersoli guns but can't seem to make up my mind on which I like this best. I'm not a reenactor and I don't plan to try hunting with it, I just want it for the fun of making smoke and throwing a big chunk of lead down range. I find all three of these guns interesting in their own way. The 1777 really needs no explanation, it is one of the most advanced firelock muskets ever made. The 1816 appeals to me because I understand it has a longer LOP for more comfortable shooting. The 1809 appeals to me with barrel band design, larger caliber, and lighter weight (it's nearly a full pound lighter per the specs).

1. 1777 "Corrige An IX" ( Muzzle Loading Rifles model 1777 Corrige' "An IX" Rifle )

2. 1816 "Harper's Ferry" ( 0 Rifles model 1816 Harper's Ferry Rifle flintlock model )

3. 1809 "Prussian" ( Muzzle Loading Rifles model 1809 Prussian Rifle )

What do you all think?

Thank you
-Matt

 

[Daryl Crawford]

I think...I like a fusil de chasse style, but that isn't helpful to you.
I think...you might want to see who is in your general area that could possibly let you shoulder, and maybe shoot, a variety of smoothbore weapons. That will probably pull you towards the smoothbore that "feels" best in your hands when shouldered.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Perhaps the Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket. At 6.6 pounds its light enough to be lively. At 20 gauge the performance should be satisfactory for most purposes.

Most importantly, I agree with @Daryl Crawford that being able to handle the specific firearm would be best for you to make the final decision.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/indian-trade-musket-rifle

 

[TDM]

I've heard good things about the Pedersoli Trade guns, and very few cons.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

At those prices I’d save up for a custom smoothie from someone like Rob Miller, where they run from $1,600 to more.

He offers a French fusil de chasse ($1,700), North West Trade gun ($1,600) and a Carolina type G trade gun ($1,800) which is what I ordered, but in the white ($150 less co$t), plus I like finishing my arms. It weighs only 6-pounds with a 48” barrel!

I can give you his contact info, but also look him up on FB. Or PM me for pictures. Current wait time when contacted (Nov) was for the build to begin in Feb.

Custom hardware, better lock, better barrel … hand made … what’s not to love?

 

[jackpine54]

Keep an eye on the classifieds here if you can wait. Something interesting will usually turn up. I haven't heard anything bad on the guns you've mentioned, but the prices are getting really close to a semi custom build. In my view that would be worth saving up for. A little bit more money for a lot more gun. I've never heard anyone on here say " I wish I'd have bought a lesser quality gun".

 

[Hermit Tim]

Perhaps the Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket. At 6.6 pounds its light enough to be lively. At 20 gauge the performance should be satisfactory for most purposes.

Most importantly, I agree with @Daryl Crawford that being able to handle the specific firearm would be best for you to make the final decision.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/indian-trade-musket-rifle

Any idea about the price of the trade gun? All three choices of the OP are excellent but I'm digging that trade gun...

 

[Ballshooter]

Those are all nice but I would really suggest a kibler Colonial smoothbore longrifle the kits are very easy to put together or you could get in the white even easier. Not as big bore as the ones you are looking at. But I can tell you the .58 smoothbore kibler is very accurate! It is 100% reliability and the quality is amazing! I have a cherry stock 58 smoothbore and I am very happy with it. The target below is @ 45 yards.

 

[Matt85]

I suppose it's my fault for not being specific, I am wanting a large caliber military style musket of the same or similar design to the French 1777. A lot of the guns you guys have mentioned are indeed fine guns but not what I'm looking for in this case.

 

[joevic57]

Any idea about the price of the trade gun? All three choices of the OP are excellent but I'm digging that trade gun...

I paid a $1,000 for mine a couple of years ago, but the prices at Dixie Gun Works and other places have increased substantially.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I do have a soft spot for the Prussian myself....

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Matt85, your desire to have selection of a French styled military musket gives us very few choices in terms of finding a production firearm. Pedersoli has the 1777 AN IX Musket. More choices are offered by Loyalist Arms with several of the earlier French military muskets listed in their catalog. The Loyalist muskets are made in India to their specifications, and they do the finishing work to drill the touch hole to sell as a functioning firearm. I have two muskets made by Loyalist Arms and I have found no issues with safety. I might grump about the extra weight compared to an original, and even with the screening performed by Loyalist Arms, they will benefit from tuning of the lock. I think the 1768 Musket is a reasonable choice.

http://loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1768french.htm
The only other choice is a parts kit from the Rifle Shoppe. These are collections of parts that require experience in assembling a kit and experience in metal work to assemble a finished lock.

Occasionally a French Musket will show up in the used market. That search may take some time and can be fraught with uncertainty of the condition of the musket.

 

[Fossilsn]

All are very cool guns. I would go with the 1809 Potsdam as well. The lighter weight is definitely a plus, but I think it comes down to uniqueness and aesthetics. I prefer the sling swivel in the trigger guard on military muskets, the brass bits stand out (I've got a Spanish 1757 so I'm partial to brass furniture over iron), outside of a Bess .75 bores are unusual, and overall these guns are far less common in the US. Plenty of Charlevilles floating around and a fair number of Springfield-made Charleville knockoffs.

The best part of a military musket is making and firing buck and ball cartridges. So satisfying.

 

[Matt85]

@Matt85, your desire to have selection of a French styled military musket gives us very few choices in terms of finding a production firearm. Pedersoli has the 1777 AN IX Musket. More choices are offered by Loyalist Arms with several of the earlier French military muskets listed in their catalog. The Loyalist muskets are made in India to their specifications, and they do the finishing work to drill the touch hole to sell as a functioning firearm. I have two muskets made by Loyalist Arms and I have found no issues with safety. I might grump about the extra weight compared to an original, and even with the screening performed by Loyalist Arms, they will benefit from tuning of the lock. I think the 1768 Musket is a reasonable choice.

http://loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1768french.htm
The only other choice is a parts kit from the Rifle Shoppe. These are collections of parts that require experience in assembling a kit and experience in metal work to assemble a finished lock.

Occasionally a French Musket will show up in the used market. That search may take some time and can be fraught with uncertainty of the condition of the musket.

@Grenadier1758 It's very funny that you bring up that particular musket! That is the exact musket I owned many years ago and is the inspiration for this purchase. The one I owned was reliable but ended up having a QC issue with the barrel that made it potentially unsafe. Loyalist Arms was great to deal with and refunded the money for both the gun and bayonet purchased with it.

I do have a soft spot for the Prussian myself....

All are very cool guns. I would go with the 1809 Potsdam as well. The lighter weight is definitely a plus, but I think it comes down to uniqueness and aesthetics. I prefer the sling swivel in the trigger guard on military muskets, the brass bits stand out (I've got a Spanish 1757 so I'm partial to brass furniture over iron), outside of a Bess .75 bores are unusual, and overall these guns are far less common in the US. Plenty of Charlevilles floating around and a fair number of Springfield-made Charleville knockoffs.

The best part of a military musket is making and firing buck and ball cartridges. So satisfying.

The 1809 is VERY interesting with one hit against it... I can't find a bayonet for it. This may sound silly, but I consider a musket without a bayonet to be incomplete. Any idea where I might be able to find one?

 

[Fossilsn]

Ha, fair enough. The Rifle Shoppe has you covered. Not sure what the wait time would be and can't guarantee it will fit the lug on a Pedersoli, but that is probably your best option.

http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/german_arms/(777)_1809.htm

 

[Matt85]

Ha, fair enough. The Rifle Shoppe has you covered. Not sure what the wait time would be and can't guarantee it will fit the lug on a Pedersoli, but that is probably your best option.

http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/german_arms/(777)_1809.htm

Thank you for the link, I sent them an email.

edit: I've been doing some research on the 1809, since compared to the other muskets I know very little about it. The firearm has a very interesting history and a strange but clever reason for its large caliber. According to this source, the large caliber was so the Prussian army could use any ammunition from any European nation.

A good read: Pattern 1809 Prussian Musket - The Battle of Waterloo - Royal Armouries collections

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I love everything Harper's Ferry and The rifle Shoppe.

 

[Fossilsn]

That is really cool. I didn't know much about the 1809 either. Never knew any muskets included an integral flash guard.

 

[Matt85]

That is really cool. I didn't know much about the 1809 either. Never knew any muskets included an integral flash guard.

I know some people put them on muskets these days for re-enacting, but this is the first time I've seen one put on by a military. Most militaries didn't care about the guy next to you getting sprayed with burning powder.

 

[Matt85]

I got ahold of Dixie Gun Works today and got measurements for the Pedersoli 1809. As it stands the bayonet available does not fit. But, it could "possibly" fit with modifications.