Getting Started with a North Star West, NW Trade Gun

[Malleus]

Hi folks,
I received a Northwest Trade Gun from North Star West last week and I tell you the smoothbore is more confusing to me than a cap & ball rifle ever was.
I'm looking for some advice on getting started & out to the range.
First off, are there any suggestions on decent books for getting started with smoothbored flintlocks?
Second could folks offer advice on what accruements I will need & where to obtain? A link would be wonderful.
From what I have read so far, I assume I will be wanting to shoot a .61 caliber bare ball, using a felt patch over the powder & ball.
In addition I assume I will need the following to start with:

• 
  Powder in FFG or FFFG
  Powder Measure
  Priming Flask (should it throw 3 or 4 grains?)
  Patch Worm
  Ball Puller
  Cleaning Jag (is this used to load too?)
  Bench/Range Rod (8/32 or 10/32 threading?)

Most these items it looks like I can get at Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gunworks but would happily accept other suggestions.
I'm not worried too much about the current rod's threading as I will most likely replace with a
synthetic rod from Dixie

I am not interested much in historical accuracy, this will be a hunting gun with target species being Whitetail Deer, Squirrels, Rabbits, & Turkey.
So I know I will want to use shot in this gun for the small game & fowl. I am assuming shot sizes would be #6 for the small game then #4 for the turkey. However, all I see is buckshot & #7/#8 birdshot. Can I use modern coated shot in the gun?
For shot shooting I assume I need

• 
  Shot
  Wads
  Cushion or Tow
  Shot measure
  Shot flask

Am I on track or am I missing something here?
I really do appreciate any & all suggestions.
Apologies if this has been broached before, I did a cursory search but, admittedly, my brain is a bit addled between information overload & a cold.

 

[Mike in VA]

Woodsbum - I'm in the same boat as you. Except I've not yet ordered my fowler. I'm torn between the NW trade gun and TVM's fowler. Anyway, I made a list of the things I believe I'll need when I get started. Maybe there are some things in it you haven't thought of. Years ago I was into custom longrifles big time. I had quite a few and learned whatever there was to know about shooting good flintlock rifles. But I got old, could no longer see the sights, so got out of it. Now, I'm going to get back in, this time with a smooth gun and that front bead that's not so difficult to see. So, here's my list:

Ӣ Powder horn (flat)
Ӣ Powder measure
Ӣ Lube
Ӣ Patching
Ӣ Wads
Ӣ Over powder and over shot cards
Ӣ Tow
Ӣ Canvas hunting bag
Ӣ Flints
Ӣ #6 shot
Ӣ Shot container
Ӣ Shot measure
Ӣ 3F and 4F Goex
Ӣ Flint ring of tools
Ӣ Ball puller
Ӣ Small tin for lubed wads/patches
”¢ Priming thingy””the plunger kind.
Ӣ Fouling scraper to get crud off the breech
Ӣ Leather for flintlock
Ӣ Short starter

Also, I studied all the input from this sight on smooth bore guns and made the following notes. Some are just copy/paste. Of course, these are only the thins I didn't already know.

Find a dowel a bit smaller than your bore. Wrap brown grocery bag paper around the dowel and make a tube ,push the dowel up a bit and fold over the end, use the dowel to press it down. You can even glue it, fill with 70grain of shot per volume and trim and fold the top.Use 70 grains of powder and then a fiber wad, your shot tube and a thin wad on top.
It seems the best PRB load for a 20 gauge is a .600 ball and a .017 or .018 cotton.

When shooting shot, and to prevent “doughnut” patterns, tow might work better than wads, which can blow a hole in the pattern.
A little more shot that powder.
I've come up with a similar cartridge (paper rolled around a dowl), but instead of the central twist and tie, I insert a wad of the "next size down" bore size. For example, for a 16 gauge cartridge, I use a wad meant for a 20 ga. bore. (For a 12 ga. cartridge, you'd use a 16 ga. wad.) Though the wad is undersized, when combined with the thickness of the cartridge paper, you get a tight enough seal of the bore.
I just tear off the "tail" end, dump the powder in, sort of ball up the excess paper under the wad, and ram it all down (gently!)as is. No need for an OS card. Pretty much performs comparably to loading all the usual components separately. Next time I shoot some patterns will post pics....
try it with and without over shot card...see which your gun does best with. You can crank out some home made ones out of milk carton and other things if you don't have any one hand. Use 2 wraps of newspaper. Anymore might make the shot charge act like a slug. May or may not want an overshot card. Tear the shot paper open or patterns might be screwy.

From one newbie to another, I hope this helps. Mike

Punch a pin hole in the overshot card to allow air to escape as you ram it down. If using two cards, offset the holes.
News print or brown paper for shot “cartridges.”
Another method is separate wrappings for shot and powder.
The shot end of a cartridge can be tied with kite string.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. Woodsbum- I think you have most of the plunder identified. Then as to literature to help you: although he may be too modest to say it, the absolute best source on the topic of these smoothbores is one of the members of this forum (George I believe). His website is called Bob's Blackpowder Notebook and it should tell you all that you need to know about shooting and hunting with flintlock smoothbores.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Bob's page. http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/
Bob rocks!

 

[nwtradegun]

forget 4f use 3f for both charge and priming. use only black English flints. track of wolf has them and lists the size. you may also want to ry 595 ball. mic your bore before you order round ball.
north star west is a 3 generation of north star ent. started in 1975 by curly goskomscey. they are top notch tradeguns.

 

[nwtradegun]

NO SEEL SHOT OF ANYKIND. you can get shot from evil bay.

 

[nwtradegun]

google you tube for shooting a flintlock trade gun or a shoot bore musket. same drill in shooting it.. you will get a lot of hits

 

[torn moc]

With Respect paid to who it is due:
~~ ~ CURLY GUSTOMSKI ~ ~ ~

his trade guns are really rare...nowadays.

 

[Alden]

forget 4f use 3f for both charge and priming.

Forget FFFg. Use only FFg for charge and FFFFg for priming.

You guys seem to be on the right track from the start. Wads are fine by the way -- they fall back from the shot charge quickly out of the barrel.

 

[matt denison]

I'd suggest that you keep it simple, take one thing at a time. YOu will eventually collect all that gear but for now you only need:

.600" lead round balls
.015" patches
FFFg black powder
powder measure
a supply of 7/8" flints

Put 65 grains of the powder in the bore, ram a ball & patch down on top of the charge using the ram rod that is supplied with your gun that has a jag atached from the factory.
Shoot.
Repeat.

 

[spudnut]

roundball,2f for charge and prime cotton cloth for patch,any natural stuff for wadding,turnscrew, jag or string and toggle for cleaning, olive oil, but then I'm a minimalist :haha: lol

 

[pargent]

Follow these guys like they are the second coming (sorry George no insult intended )
Laffin Dog , Spence IO , Stumpkiller , they will only give you good advice based on their years of trials etc.. :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Wow, Phil, I am honored you put me in that cadre.

Smoothbores are very liberating. You can use them easy, you can use them authentic, or you can use them practical. And these overlap widely.

I use Circle Fly wads for my shot loads and that is a modern "cheat" but sure improves my patterns. For 15 years I had a Bess (made by Kit Ravenshear) that only used tow for wadding . . . and I never dropped a grouse. Horrible patterns. But in fairness it threw a nice ball out to 60 yards and that was what it was designed for.

Hard lead shot is OK, but not steel.

Smoothbores don't put a lot of strain on a rammer but if you feel the need to add threaded attachments and yours is plain, go for it. Note that I have a simple wood rammer I occasionally use for my .54 rifle with no brass/threased tips. There are ways around threaded attachments (but for pulling a ball I'd say a threaded screw is the way to go).

Smoothbores do not require wiping between shots. I have gone 30 shots with mine just loading and priming to see how it would do. Did fine.

Currently I am using FFg in my fowler and priming with FFFFg. Mostly because Horner75 made me a flat priming horn that is just too nice not to use! I have primed with FFg and if my priming flask emptied out I wouldn't hesitate a moment to prime with FFg. Trade guns have an accomidating pan and are designed for "rough" conditions and less than ideal situations. You likely would do fine with one horn and FFg for both.

I like a little more shot than powder by volume so use two measures - but my shot pouch plug is hollowed to serve as a measure so it does double duty.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Bob's page. http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/
Bob rocks!

Can't emphasize too much or too often how much info Bob Spencer's site can be to novice shooter as well as us grey bearded ole farts. My personal take is that it should be required reading for all new shooters and his story are so heartwarming, anyone can enjoy them. Do yourselves a favor and check out Bob's "words of wisdom". They also say "with age comes wisdom"...how ture that is may be debated, but like Bob, I've learned to go simple an enjoy the sport.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Absolutely, he got me hooked on this smoothbore stuff ages ago, the rogue :hatsoff:

B.

 

[54ball]

18th Century Wad http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/284411/post/1335553/hl//fromsearch/1/

Use of 18th century wad http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/285980/post/1358736/hl//fromsearch/1/

Now I personally do not like the "unbreakable" rods. IMHO these can teach a shooter bad habits.

I use my hickory rods as loading and cleaning rods but I know how to use them. Simply put. Don't do dumb stuff with a wooden rod. Remember that when ramming a charge, use short strokes about 4 to 6 inches at a time, never grab it at the end and try to force it down at once. Do not load so tight it has to be pounded down, a lot of folks make that mistake. It's the same with cleaning.

 

[tenngun]

Smooth bores are very forgiving. Was shooting a match and forgot my tow wadding. Just picked grass off the ground and rammed her home. Placed well above middle in the match. 2f will serve in the pan, 3f will serve in the bore.I have never liked fooling with a primer of any kind...Keep it simple it will serve.

 

[pargent]

HAHA :rotf: Green grass is very HC/PC especialy for arty

 

[Birdwatcher]

I'm in the same boat as you. Except I've not yet ordered my fowler. I'm torn between the NW trade gun and TVM's fowler.

I have a TVM fowler...

No contest, not even close, go North Star West and don't look back.

Two main problems with TVM's fowlers....

Their "special" fowler barrels come in two iterations... no taper on the octagon, tapered round section and... no taper on the octagon, no taper on the round section. In either barrel form what this does is give you a far inferior sighting plane along the top of the barrel. Basically you see the octagon top flat and then just the top of the front sight blade floating out there in space.

Usable but not nearly as natural as being able to see the whole barrel to the front sight blade. I improved things on mine by adding a rear sight and sight it like a rifle.

The other thing is the balance and lines. The lines are subtle but become obvious next to a correctly tapered fowler. I have the completely untapered barrel. A good fowler should heft like a magic wand, mine feels about like a rifle.

The other problem is the location of the ramrod channel. relatively far from the barrel, presumably for easier routing. Unfortunately this leaves the unsupported ramrod tip susceptible to damage as well as requiring the forearm be left relatively stout. Further clunking up the lines and adding more weight. Mine weighs nine pounds something.

It does shoot, but also so do all correctly-tapered and slender fowlers. Here's mine after I took out the engine room of a little javelina at 40 yards with a .600 ball, 0.10 ox-yoke patch and 80 grains of FFFg.

In profile note the untapered lines on the forearm and barrel and the low-set ramrod.

From the lemons to lemonade department, it has been my privilege to be a regular reenactor at the Alamo and at Texian events. Reenacting Texian is about one of the easiest there is on account of so very many different peoples and styles were present by the 1830's.

I pass off my heavy smoothbore with its rear sight as a working-grade parts gun, of indeterminant style, assembled from various used components available at the smith's :grin:

This was my first flinter and my first serious black powder longarm, it was a bucket list item. I didn't know all of the above when I ordered mine, else I woulda gone NS West. The only possible drawback I can see with the NS West guns is that they seem to use their own proprietory lock, TVM uses mainstream locks like L&R, Chambers etc. which seem more widely available if you need parts or a replacement.

Birdwatcher

 

[Birdwatcher]

I have a .62 TVM, and a couple of 80 grain powder measures.

Not coincidentally, my favorite loads all use 80 grains of powder :grin:

For doves I use 80 grains of FF under a fiber wad, and 1 1/4oz of #7 under a card disk (all from ToTW). All that shot might be overkill but that the size of my shot measure and it patterns well at 30 yards...

Thus far I have achieved my best and most consistent accuracy with a .600 ball, 0.010 lubed Ox-Yoke patch over 80 grains of FFFg. This group was fired from 50 yards standing offhand with my left hand on the stock held steady against a vertical post....

Heavier powder charges just blew open the group, and some guy posted on the net some time back about shooting a similar ball using the same powder charge all the way to the far side of an adult buffalo at 70 yards. Only difference was he used dried prairie grass as wadding rather than a patch.

I do prefer FFFFg in the pan, but I'm pretty sure I could get by with nothing but FFFg in this gun.

Birdwatcher