Getting Started with Renegade

[aOWENc]

Hello everyone,

My name is Alex and I’m new to the forum. I recently purchased a TC Renegade .50, it is the single trigger model. I was hoping I could get some advice from you guys on what load to start with and what shoots good in your guns.

Here’s what I have to work with

.010 pre cut patch
.015 pre cut patch
.018 pre cut pillow ticking
.530 Hornady round balls
1 pound Goex 2f
1 pound goex 3f
1 pound pyrodex RS
CCI #11 magnum caps
TOTW mink oil
Crisco

I’m open to any and all suggestions. I also would like to hunt with this gun, and I have some 250 Grain TC shockwave sabots from my inline that I was wanting to try. I would also be open to purchasing other bullets such as the Hornady Great Plains, PA Conical, or Powerbelts. Or of course if you guys think I should give the roundball a whirl on deer i would do that and just limit my shots to 75 yards or so.

Also, do you guys swab the bore between shots?

How difficult and or expensive would it be to get a double trigger put in this rifle if it’s even possible? Even if it is a renegade I would like it be a little more traditional.


Thanks in advance,

Alex

 

[Sparkitoff]

You said you have a .50 and then said you have .530 round balls. That aint gonna work. You'll need .490 or .495 round balls for a .50. If you have a .54, maybe it was just a typo and you'd be set with the .530 balls. Some folks work up loads meticulously, and I have done that. If you have a .54 and want to get right to it, try 80 grains of a powder and a .015 patch lightly lubed with mink oil and ball. If you get excellent accuracy you can just keep doing that. If you have an open group you can change one element at a time. If the load seated without a lot of effort my personal next step would be to try the .018 patches with the mink oil. If one patch or another makes a noticeable difference, you can then experiment by switching to one of the other powders and evaluating the accuracy. Once you find a combo that produces good accuracy, you can lower the powder charge in 5 grain increments and up in 5 grain increments to see if accuracy improves somewhere or falls off. The Goex should light readily and frankly I do not see a lot of accuracy difference between 3F and 2F in 60-90 grain charges. The pressure and velocity will be somewhat different so you really have to pay attention to the accuracy and shoot consistently to see which is actually providing better performance. Your rifle has a maximum recommended charge. My personal limit for any rifle is 100 grains. For hunting, you can get anything accomplished with less than that. You will hear suggestions that you start with 1 grain per caliber or 1.5 grains per caliber. In other words, 50 grain in the 50 caliber or 54 grains in the 54 caliber. I've never achieve my best accuracy at the low end but some people find contentment in the 60 grain range so it doesn't hurt to experiment. You said you are going to hunt. Depending on what game and at what distance anything from 60-90 grains will do it in either caliber. It is more important to get the absolute accuracy you need than to try to squeeze out a few more feet per second. It seems like you have a .50 caliber since you mention some projectiles that only come in 50 caliber and some others that are consistent with 50 caliber. I've been there - used a more modern muzzleloader for a while and have seen clients use many (I am a retired PH). If you're gonna stick with that Renegade with open sights or put a peep on it you are likely going to keep shots at and under 100 yards. A patched round ball will work fine on whitetail deer. Your rifling rate of twist may have a preference for a conical. In the 50 caliber I have extensive experience with the PA conical. It is inexpensive and works well on game if you get the accuracy you need. This projectile is much like the Buffalo Ball-et that is making a comeback. The Hornady Great Plains is a much heavier projectile but if that is where your accuracy comes from then it is the one for you. The other projectiles you mentioned will all work but you are paying a stiff price for them and not necessarily getting any better performance. If you have plastic in the barrel you need something to get that out and I've used Brownell's shotgun wad solvent. If you have lead in the barrel you need something to get that out and the choices of products are many - but requires a bit of effort to get the job done thoroughly. If you use a PRB, the patch touches the barrel. You have to contend with powder and lube but they are easily removed from the barrel with hot water, WD-40 on a swab, isopropyl alcohol and other homemade and commercial products. Buy a book or order DUTCH SHULTZ manual! You asked if "we" swab between shots. Everyone does it a little different! I have begun using a spit patch between shots but only swabbing down to the last 2 inches. Supposedly, this helps to keep from pushing fowling and moisture down into the drum and other hard to reach areas. There will be a lot of opinions coming your way and many are far more experienced than I am so stand by....

 

[Rifleman1776]

Spark gave a lot of good advice. I would add, toss the Crisco and forget you ever heard of the stuff. Yes, swabbing between shots has many benefits. There are a lot of threads on this issue. Be aware, there are some who believe there is a special place in heaven for those who do not swab. Once you acquire the right size balls do experiment with loads. The round ball will be great for all hunting unless you plan to take on a big griz.

 

[aOWENc]

Thank you both for the great replies. I indeed did have a typo in my post. I was thinking about the caliber I wish I had and not the one that I do have! My rifle is a .50 cal and the balls that I purchased are Hornady .490

I will start with the .015 patches for sure. Also, thanks for the crisco advice. I heard it was a good lube for the range so I figured why not for as cheap as it was. Good thing it has other uses! I’ll stick with the mink oil as it is pretty inexpensive as well for as much as you get in a can.

This leads me to my next question, do you like to melt the mink oil and saturate the patches and then let them drip off the excess, or do you find that a simple wipe off the top of the can works well?

 

[Sparkitoff]

You can swipe both sides to get started. Also, a "spit" patch isn't bad on the range. Just put the patch in your mouth and moisten it. Not sloppy wet, just slightly dampened. There's a lot of lube and lube formulas out there. I like Ballistol. You mix it 7 parts water to 1 part Ballistol, dunk patches or a strip of patching material and let it dry in a horizontal position. The water will evaporate leaving an oiled patch that feels "dry". You can tweak your load by trying 6:1 or 8:1 later to see if accuracy goes up or down. Nothing wrong with Mink Oil either wiped on or "baked in". This is an exercise in experimentation. Try both and see which works best in your rifle with your load..

 

[Zonie]

Hello everyone,

My name is Alex and I’m new to the forum. I recently purchased a TC Renegade .50, it is the single trigger model. I was hoping I could get some advice from you guys on what load to start with and what shoots good in your guns.

Here’s what I have to work with

.010 pre cut patch
.015 pre cut patch
.018 pre cut pillow ticking
.530 Hornady round balls (later corrected to .490 diameter ball)
1 pound Goex 2f
1 pound goex 3f
1 pound pyrodex RS
CCI #11 magnum caps
TOTW mink oil
Crisco

I’m open to any and all suggestions. I also would like to hunt with this gun, and I have some 250 Grain TC shockwave sabots from my inline that I was wanting to try. I would also be open to purchasing other bullets such as the Hornady Great Plains, PA Conical, or Powerbelts. Or of course if you guys think I should give the roundball a whirl on deer i would do that and just limit my shots to 75 yards or so.

Also, do you guys swab the bore between shots?

How difficult and or expensive would it be to get a double trigger put in this rifle if it’s even possible? Even if it is a renegade I would like it be a little more traditional.


Thanks in advance,

Alex

You didn't mention it so I'll point out that loading your patched ball will require using something to get it started into the muzzle. The ball size plus twice the patch thickness (there is patching on both sides of the ball) will always be a press fit.

I use a "short starter" which is basically a wooden 2 1/2" diameter ball with two short dowels sticking out of it. One sticks out about 1/4" and the other one is about 2 1/2" long.

To use this, after the powder is measured and dumped down the barrel, place the lubricated patch on the muzzle and the ball in the center of it, pushing it down with your thumb.
Then, place the short dowel on top of the ball and give the ball a whack with the palm of your hand. This will firmly start the patched ball into the bore.
Once started, turn the short starter so the longer dowel is now on top of the ball and give the round ball another, lighter whack.
Once the longer dowel is totally in the bore, remove the short starter and use a ramrod or range rod to push the patched ball down so it is tightly against the gun powder.

After capping (or priming in the case of a flintlock), your ready to shoot.

Before pouring the powder into the barrel, it is a good idea to make sure that there is no cap on the nipple and the hammer is not resting on the nipple. You don't want anything resisting the air that will blow out of the nipple when you ram the ball.

The bullets you mention work fine for some and not so good for others. The results have a lot to do with the fit between the bullet and the bore in your particular gun and the twist and depth of your barrel's rifling. They are costly and using them will cause the gun to kick harder if that's an issue. The only way to find out if they will work in your gun is to buy some and try them with different powder loads while shooting at a distance of 50 to 100 yards.

I may be wrong but I don't think there are any double set triggers that will easily fit your Renegade. Besides that, not all of the original guns had double set triggers.
Many hunters actually prefer the simple, single trigger. It usually has a better feel and pull weight than an unset double set trigger and it is less likely to accidentally fire the gun than a set double set trigger. Those double set triggers when set only require about one ounce of force to release them and if you have on hunting gloves it is all too easy to trip the front trigger without even knowing your touching it.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Before you start feeding that Renegade round balls check the twist rate.
I have a 54 Renegade that came from the factory with a 1:24 twist barrel.
It hates round balls. If you have a fast twist rate, take a look at conicals or minies.

 

[Oregononeshot]

Welcome! Great advice so far, heck even I learned something. I'm new to traditional myself and have learned a ton from this forum. I highly recommend visiting blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com. There you can see a brief overview of Dutchs system, which I have used, and believe in. I use ballistol and water as lube on a pillow ticking patch, and so far have great success, and I've only tried a 1:5 and 1:7 ratio. I plan on trying 1:6 and 1:8 next. I swab after every shot with a LIGHTLY moistened spit patch. You have a good assortment of supplies to start, and as previously stated, change only ONE thing each time. I also recommend getting a notebook and keeping detailed notes about each 5 shot group, and any other details worth noting. Good luck keep us posted!

 

[necchi]

Here's what ya do Alex,
Here's the TC Manual,, once ya get past the gazillion pages of lawyer warnings it has good basic info with pictures an stuff;
https://www.tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/Hawken_Manual.pdf
After you read it;
Grab all the stuff, (ditch the Crisco or use it for cooking) go to someplace you can shoot and start goofing around with all the stuff.
Stick with patches and ball for now. All those modern do-dads(sabots/PB) don't work so well in the Renegade for newbies,, learning the basics of loading and ignition should come first.
Don't worry too much about accuracy right away,, we'll walk ya through that as you learn the rifle.
here's a tip;
when ya pour the powder in,, give the rifle a slap down by the lock,, it helps get the powder down into a place in the barrel call the "flash channel".
Once you've been shootin for awhile,, come on back,, we can answer those questions,

p.s. Oh, and don't forget to clean the darn thing,, ya gotta do it, every time,, soapy water like a baby bath works just fine.

 

[oldwolf]

You mentioned looking for a double set trigger for your Renegade.
There are a number of them on Ebay right now, along with the correct trigger guards. Reasonably priced, too.
You may have to inlet the stock a bit, not sure.
My Renegade has a double set trigger. I'd be glad to compare pictures of your trigger and stock with mine to see if it just a simple part swap.
Good luck.

 

[Eric Krewson]

For a little more than ebay triggers are going for you can buy a Davis Deerslayer trigger and have a much better trigger than a TC.

I just worked up a load for tc .50 kit gun I put together; .490 ball, 70 gr 2F, .015 patch. I am getting about a 1 1/2" group at 50 yards. Your gun may like something completely different.

 

[oldwolf]

I've never seen the Davis products before. Very nice.

 

[aOWENc]

Thanks for all the awesome replies guys. I will definitely check out the Davis trigger.

I went to the range today and shot the new renegade. First shots were way low with 70 grains of 2f, raised the sight and went to 80 grains of powder and got 2 touching at 50 yards, still about 4 inches low. Finally got it raised up enough to where I had 3 really near the bull in about a 2 inc group, and then gave it another click up for good measure. Final shot was about 1” above the bull. Went back to 80 yards and shot and it was a dead center hit. Can’t wait to take it hunting. All of your guys advice really helped, and it really was much easier than I anticipated to get a load that worked.

I tried 90 grains but groups opened up quite a bit. 80 should suit me just fine.

I started using .015 patches and mink oil, but it seemed a little too easy to load so I went up to the .018 pillow ticking and while it was a little tighter, it really tightened up the groups it seemed. I was shooting 80 grains goex 2f and that’s what I think I have settled on for now.

Just got it all cleaned up with hot soap and water, finished up with a lightly oiled patch.

I will attach a pic of the patches I found after shooting. Please let me know what you think of them, and if they are burning up too much, what would you guys change?

Thanks so much!

 

[aOWENc]

For a little more than ebay triggers are going for you can buy a Davis Deerslayer trigger and have a much better trigger than a TC.

I just worked up a load for tc .50 kit gun I put together; .490 ball, 70 gr 2F, .015 patch. I am getting about a 1 1/2" group at 50 yards. Your gun may like something completely different.

Just checked out those Davis triggers, those look great. Is the install really as easy as they make it sound?
Thanks!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Agree with everything above. We use Thompson Center 1000+ products, self cleans the fowling out.
Give the Mrs back her Chrico, before you dont get any cookies for your trip to the woods.

 

[tenngun]

It is easy sort of. Any time you fit to wood and get a nice finish you have to go slow. You can’t put wood back.
Sett triggers are nice but play with the guns bit. Ishoot as well with single triggers as with set, and infact I only own one gun with set triggers on it now. It is not more historicly accurate, rifles were common without set triggers and with them.

 

[aOWENc]

I’m also beginning to figure out why so many hate bore butter. I used it for storage In my Inline muzzleloader and when I went to clean it I had a brown residue that was not rust. Very difficult to get out even with hot soapy water.

How would using the mink oil as a long term storage rust preventative work?

 

[Griz44Mag]

I’m also beginning to figure out why so many hate bore butter. I used it for storage In my Inline muzzleloader and when I went to clean it I had a brown residue that was not rust. Very difficult to get out even with hot soapy water.

How would using the mink oil as a long term storage rust preventative work?

A good gun oil with a rust preventative would be the best to use. The mink oil is slick and makes great patches but a rust prevent treatment is better.

 

[Mad Professor]

Just checked out those Davis triggers, those look great. Is the install really as easy as they make it sound?
Thanks!

Welcome to the forum Alex!

In my experience just a little paring with a small chisel was all that was needed.

The ones I've installed were such an improvement I didn't bother touching the adjustments.

There is a member here who has been missing a long time, Roundball, who polished up the factory TC double set triggers and claimed that was a huge improvement. You might be able to locate one of his threads in this with a search, but he has ~14,000 posts

 

[necchi]

Is the install really as easy as they make it sound?

Here is how the TC single and double are different;

This shows how a double fit's into the single mortise and the needed double trigger guard, you may need the second generation double trigger guard that will accept the front tang screw. They changed in 1993,, so you either have it or ya don't.

This is the needed little "patch" for the unused part of the single trigger inlet;

And this shows how you have to inlet the rear mount of the double TG;