Glass power horns

[Omahkapi'si]

I'd fill mine with Absinthe.

 

[toot]

I for one see nothing wrong with them, after all glass has been used for many years for canteen's! they have even been used by the military, example, the RUSSIANS. so I see nothing wrong with them as as a powder horn? I am sure that the glass used will be much harder / thicker than WINDOW PAINE GLASS.

 

[oldwood]

There must be some unknown attributes to glass powder horns , beside that they might explode if dropped on stone , and sunlight may ignite the powder inside , if left in an exposed position where sunlight is magnified with a burning lens effect. One thing sure , most written material from times past condemns the use of glass as a powder container. ...........As Celt says above also, there have to be other reasons glass powder containers have been so roundly condemned. .........oldwood

 

[jimhallam]

One potential problem with glass is that the stopper may jam in the neck -- as it does on decanters. Use of force could be problematical!
[I experienced a worrying situation when I took over a school chemistry lab. The lab "assistant" had a cupboard full of what she called "chemicals we never use" and one of them was a 2 lb jar with a jammed glass lid. It was 1/2 full of PICRIC ACID crystals ;-((((( Apparently she had mis-ordered some antiseptic solution. A real problem as it was a Catholic school and it was back in the days when the IRA were very active. I called the fire brigade and they called the EOD (Explosives Ordnance Depot) -- who thankfully took it away. As the song says ... "life gits teejus, don't it?" ]

 

[mushka]

I would think that a glass horn thick enough to be usable would be too heavy to drag around considering all the other stuff a bp gun user has to carry.

 

[oldwood]

I'm with Mushka on this.....I have an 18th century mock-up of a leather bound water bottle found at Old Bedford Village. That bottle is too heavy. Brandy would make it lighter. Weight would still be a problem.

 

[flntlokr]

Something occurred to me today about the glass"powder horns". Assuming that a person did use one for his powder, wouldn't the light entering the glass create condensation inside where as a normal horn would not allow this sort of problem?

the only way light would create moisture would be if the powder was wet. The heat would cause the powder to dry; the water vapour would be in the air 9in the horn, and could condense out onto the glass as the temperature dropped.

 

[TexiKan]

Maybe so, Celticstoneman. I have not experimented with the concept but I can seen where if it were left in the sunlight as such, it may do that, especially if the horn is not full. Then again, one would have to leave it out in such conditions and not open it. I guess I could try it with some inert substance. My other guess most were likely in use much of the time. Also, none of the reproductions of these are clear glass.

 

[smo]

Could one assume these are made for Tourists?
Possibly something from Alamo or surrounding area?

Is the Texicsn Trading Post in that area?

 

[Whitworth]

The reason they are so rare is they all got dropped .

 

[TexiKan]

I weighed the green glass example I have and it weighs 14 ounces, empty. I also weighed a partially filled standard horn powder horn and it was at 12 .oz. Again, the glass is rather thick and in comparison, if you drop a full beer bottle on its base on the ground,(not concrete) that would be about the same impact.

Teixican's post on these gives a historical reference AND notes all are hand blown, which may also account for the fewer number of individuals who can create such items in comparison to the masses who can work on a cow horn. I am sure there was also a cost factor involved for those early examples, too, which like clothing of the era, purchasing vs. homemade can be less affordable.

What I am seeing so far is that no one else has posted they have one of these and are using them in some form.

 

[oldwood]

I still think glass powder containers were a rarity back in the day. Glass anything , even through early 1800's might have been rare on the frontiers. Near East USA coastal cities , glass might have been available. On the frontier's , old texts seem to refer to pottery , and metal vessels which have their inherent obvious defects. Cow horn was common , obviously a byproduct of food production . Cow horn and powder storage was a match ,add bee's wax to seal it all up , It's all good..............oldwood

 

[76monza]

Texikan,

I had forgot you had those horns until I ran across this thread. They are a neat little curio that I would love to know more about.
It does seem like a lot of unnecessary work to create these in a glass shop for no other reason than as a "whimsy" as someone called it. Glass items were not as rare on the prairie as was suggested just remember the steamboat Arabia museum has loads of glass items on display. But the glass items did seem to have a very functional purpose such as bottles windows, glasses, lamps etc. I can't begin to guess what that is, but if they are powder horns perhaps they were not designed to be carried on the person but rather used as a powder store horn in a house, maybe they held oil or other dried goods and spices, salt horn maybe.
Just because its shaped like a powder horn doesn't mean it held black powder. Do keep us posted if you find out.

 

[Woody Morgan]

They remind me of something Jim Beam or Avon cologne would come in.

wm

 

[TexiKan]

I realize many may not bother to search for the info from Texican Trade 'n Post so here is a quote from them and the entire link to that specific page addressing the glass horns with their examples, including remarks about their use for liquids, too.

"In “Sketch Book 56, Vol. VI, Indian Allies”, pp.14, by Ted Spring. He mentions that by 1756, the French and Indian War Period, French Traders were trading glass powder horns to Indian Allies of the French. Mr. Spring also mentions that “Finger Woven” cloth powder horn straps were being used. It is quite possible that French Traders were responsible for trading glass powder horns to the Texas Indians also."

Glass Powder Horns

 

[toot]

The reason they are so rare is they all got dropped .

no, the glass bloweres ran out of breath!!!

 

[sawyer04]

I believe I'll use a glass horn for Mr. Daniels to reside in before being consumed, if I come across one, that is.

 

[TexiKan]

I added a stopper to the largest glass horn. The stopper has a wood cap on top of cork. I assume the original purpose of the stopper was for standard sized bottles. I filed the wood and the cork to fit and stained the wood. This cap may be too large for the smaller examples and I would have to improvise.

 

[Tumbledown]

I for one see nothing wrong with them, after all glass has been used for many years for canteen's! they have even been used by the military, example, the RUSSIANS. so I see nothing wrong with them as as a powder horn? I am sure that the glass used will be much harder / thicker than WINDOW PAINE GLASS.

Until a spark sets one off. Shards of glass everywhere.

 

[TexiKan]

Until a spark sets one off. Shards of glass everywhere.

The article I referenced in an early post about these items addresses this:

“Thanks to Eric Bye I was made aware of an article on the Internet entitled, “Can a static spark set off black powder?” (see bibliography). The treatise is replete with photographs of each of the five steps in an experiment to ignite black powder and other carbon-containing propellants, with static electricity, failed. The anonymous experimenter’s explanation of why the sparks wouldn’t set off the powder:
“The answer comes from the fact that black powder, and other carbon- containing propellants, are fair conductors of electricity. When material conducts well, it takes a lot more current to heat it up. This is why the lamp wire stays cool and the filament in your light bulb get white hot. The same current passes through both, but because the light filament has a much higher resistance to the passage of electric current, most of the heat ends up there rather than in the wire. In the experiment, the air has a very high resistance, while the powder conducts fairly well. The passage of the spark heats the air white-hot, but the powder stays cool. A very high-current spark (like lightning!) would, of course, heat everything and cause ignition, but this would take much more current than could be provided from a static-like source.”
Implying actual experience in using a glass powder horn, Scott Grandstaff’s research (see bibliography) indicates: “In the case of the small glass priming
horns the straps were very short, nestling the horn very high and close to the body – under the arm. The small horns were for the priming powder (finely ground) used in the pan of a flintlock rifle or pistol. While the pan used the finely ground priming powder, the main charge of not-so- finely-ground gunpowder was poured down the barrel.”
Conclusion
Powder horns of glass were made. Powder horns of glass were used. Powder horns of glass were used to contain black powder. And powder horns of glass were used as decorative items.
They were made well beyond the 19th century, where they were a necessary adjunct to weapons that used black powder.”