GOEX Express Black Powder

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Glenfilthie

45 Cal.
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I just saw this new flavour of black powder in my favourite gun mag.

Has anyone tried it yet? We probably won't see the stuff up here in Canada for awhile because guns frighten the liberals and no doubt they will want to set up barriers at the border so that they can assure themselves that this stuff does not threaten the Nanny State. :shocked2:

Up here in Edmonton it seems to be that if ya want to shoot black powder you are stuck with GOEX and that's about it. It would be nice to have some variety...

:(
 
nuttin wrong with goex in alot of people minds, lucky yer not stuck with some of the fake powders :rotf: :v ..............bob
 
I have tried Goex Express, both FFG, and FFFG, and don't find much difference from red can Goex. I get good results with Goex, (Accuracy/Fouling), so I can't justify $8.00 a can more for Express.
 
Glenfilthie said:
Up here in Edmonton it seems to be that if ya want to shoot black powder you are stuck with GOEX and that's about it. It would be nice to have some variety...

:(

All I use is Goex and it's all I recommend to friends and other shooters. I would never consider myself being stuck with Goex.

HD
 
The Muzzleloader crowd will not see the difference between Goex and Goex Express, if they do, it is MINIMUM. Goex Express is for the BPCR shooter.

Same goes for Swiss in my Opinion.

If you can't get your rifle to shoot with Goex, you better practice more or find a different rifle .

Headhunter
 
This has been an interesting thread. Until I found this forum I equated Goex with "replica" black powder, I was unaware they made real black powder.

Any Goex carried around here is the fake stuff, and the few other people I know who shoot BP usually use the terms "Goex" and "fake black powder" as interchangeable.

My flintlock will work with a prime of 4f Goex (Pinnacle) and a main charge of 2f Swiss or Graf & Son (with a slight hang fire), or a prime of 4f Swiss or Graf and a main charge of 2f Goex (with a considerable, but consistent, hang fire of about 2 seconds), but it will not fire at all with Goex (Pinnacle) as the prime and the main charge.
 
Squirrel Tail said:
"...with a slight hang fire..."
"...with a considerable, but consistent, hang fire of about 2 seconds...:

Assuming you'd just as soon not have that hang fire, and assuming you have a good vent hole to pan relationship, I'd be curious about the "size" of the vent hole.

If it's a removable, inexpensive, easily replaceable vent "liner", you might see how large the current hole is...if it's smaller than say 5/64", you might consider getting another liner and drilling it's hole out to 5/64"...see if that takes care of the delay.

Real black 4F prime and real black main should go off about like a .30-30 :wink:
 
Goex has been the source of Black powder for many years. Only recently have they ventured into the fake stuff. I don't know where you have been.

The Fake stuff should not be used for either Prime, or for the main charge in a flintlock. The flash point for these substitutes is too high to be reliably ignited. Swiss, or Wano, or Schuetzen powders are good Black powder,also. You can order your powder from several suppliers, such as Graf & Sons, or Powder, Inc, which you can locate under member resources at the top of the index to this forum. These companies will sell the the powders at the lowest cost, but because any shipment is required to pay a Government Haz Mat( Hazardous Materials) fee, of $20.00, per shipment, it pays you to find someone else to share an order, so that the cost can be spread over several pounds of powder in one order. A case holds 25 lbs. You can mix and match powders with these suppliers. They can also ship orders of small quantities, but you have to understand that the Haz Mat fee is the same whether you order 1 pound or 50 lbs. d

If you gun is experiencing any kind of significant delay in firing( Chamber ignition) the source of the problem can be several. 1. You are using a substitute powder rather than Black Powder in a flintlock. 2. You did not open a hole in the main charge in order to facilitate( speed up) ignition of the main charge when the priming powder burns outside the barrel in the flashpan. 3. You covered your flash hole( vent) with your priming powder, and that powder has to burn down before the main charge can be ignited.4. Your Vent hole should be located above a line drawn across the top of the flashpan, about .030" for best ignition. Some touch holes are drilled too small, or have no liner, or a bad one. The Chamber's Lightning liner does work to speed ingition, because it is coned on the inside, and that cone forms a parabolic surface to reflect heat back into the chamber, which helps raise the temperature, and pressure in the chamber quickly. A touch hole diameter of 1/16" inch general helps ignition, but sometimes you have to open it up to 5/64". 5. Your flint is striking the face of the frizzen too high, and/or is not scraping metal off the face, but instead gouging metal out of the face, letting it slowly fall down the face as the frizzen opens, into the pan, if any sparks are still alive by then, This can delay ignition of the priming powder, and therefore the main charge substantially. The angle that your flint strikes the frizzen must be about 60 degrees to vertical, measured with the ase line along the top of the bottom jaw of the cock, the center of the angle being at the point where the edge of the flint actually contacts the frizzen, and the other line being drawn from that point to the top of the frizzen's inside point. You want the flint to strike about 60% to 2/3 of the way up from the bottom edge of the frizzen. You should see long continuous scraping marks made by the flint on the frizzen, and not gouges like the rippled surface of a washboard.

Fix those problems and your troubles with your flintlock firing should be over. Oh, when the lock is tuned properly, and you load the chamber properly, the gun firing should sound like, " kBOOM!", and the main charge should be burning before the cock finishes its fall.
 
All here are not on the same level of enlightenment as you, Paul. Call it what you will, but some folks, including myself, have things that they need to know more about. Be easy, oh wise one.
 
The rifle fires great with real 4f prime and 2f charge, no noticeable delay between hammer strike and firing. It's just with the replica powder that I have the problem. So I avoid that problem by only using Swiss or Graf powders, no delay at all.
 
"...a prime of 4f Swiss or Graf and a main charge of 2f Goex (with a considerable, but consistent, hang fire of about 2 seconds)..."
I was responding to your comment (blue)...and since all my experience with cases of Goex is that it's always been outstanding, I assumed something else must be at work...ie: size of the flash hole, etc.

So I don't understand why there'd be a 2 sec delay with 4F Swiss prime and 2F Goex main...that's a puzzler
 
I should have been more specific, I guess. Sorry about that :surrender: There is a hangfire when I use EITHER real bp as the prime and replica as the main charge, OR when I use replica as the prime and real bp as the main charge. If I use real bp as both, I have no delay at all, and if I use replica as both, the gun won't fire.
 
Hey! I appreciate the advice! People could write books about all I don’t know about muzzleloading. (In fact, I’m sure someone has! :grin: ) The only things I’m an expert on have absolutely nothing to do with muzzleloading. But muzzleloading is a LOT more fun!

I stopped shooting bp about 30 years ago when I was at university. I have absolutely no idea what brand of bp I shot then, whatever the local gun shops sold. Could have been Goex, I really couldn't say.

I started back about a year ago or so, and I found the only powder available locally is Goex, but it is Goex Pinnacle. I called every gun or sporting goods store I could find a number for, and visited some I found that I couldn’t find a number for. If I asked if they had black powder, they ALWAYS said something to the effect of “No, we don’t carry black powder, but we have Goex”, by which they really meant Goex Pinnacle. From those responses I concluded that “Goex” was only replica powder, a conclusion that I think is not unreasonable given those statements. I only know a few other people who shoot muzzleloaders, and they all use the term “Goex” as a generic equivalent to “replica powder”, so I didn’t realize until this thread that Goex also made real bp.

Obviously I was mistaken in my understanding. :surrender: Not the first time, won’t be the last. I’ve learned (and re-learned) a great deal about muzzleloading in the 2 weeks or so I’ve been reading this forum. It is amazing how willing people are to share what they know here!

Now I order Swiss or Graf (depending on what’s in or out of stock) from Graf and Son. Given the choice I would use Graf, simply because it’s a bit cheaper. I don’t find any performance difference between Swiss and Graf powders.

I have no delay at all using real black powder, only when I use replica powder. So I just don’t use replica powder.

The points of my original post were, primarily, that I was really under the wrong impression about what Goex was, and I was glad to learn yet something else from the forum, and secondarily that my flintlock performed poorly with replica powder.
 
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