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Goex, Schuetzen, Swiss and Elephant Blackpowders

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I posted this off topic in another thread, so I'm reposting it here, because I feel its that important.
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If you like Goex, treat yourself to some Swiss or Schuetzen. Expensive, but Fantastic Stuff!

I got to try all four powders during the Vermont Renaissance Festival.

Elephant, dirty, greasy, nasty stuff. Got stuck with two cans of it. Glad they shut down the business.

Goex, good dependable, clean burning.

But the Swiss and the German stuff, WOW! What a difference!

Just :m2c:
 
If you like Goex, treat yourself to some Swiss Expensive, but Fantastic Stuff!But the Swiss and the German stuff, WOW! What a difference!Just :m2c:
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Claypipe,
Elephant right on
Swiss not worth the money difference
Schuetzen equal to Goex
Goex Goex is Goex
Claypipe,
You may be right, but these are my thoughts
after shooting for going onto 20 years. I always come
back to Goex. One thing we agree on is Elephant is some
nasty stuff!!!
snake-eyes :imo:
 
I've had BAD luck with Elephant powder, very dirty, you have to wipe between every shot. :shake:


TheGunCellar
 
Never have shot Elephant. I shoot Swiss, Goex and Graf. Graf is made by Wano...seems to shoot alright. Good stuff at $9 a pound.
 
I used GOEX until the price went to $16/lb in local stores. I then tried a can of Elephant and literally buried it---what dirty manure---I know a ML site moderator who literally throws people off the site if you disagree with him re: Elephant. I split a case, from the Maine Powder House, of Swiss with a friend and I have plenty of fffg, ffg & ffffg and I just love it. :m2c:
 
Claypipe:

I have been using Elephant Lot#24/99 for years and it has been one of the best powders I ever used! I can't tell ya too much about the other lots. I know people who shot the later stuff have been complaining about it though. Too bad. I'm down to my last two cans of the Elephant FFg.

I've been trying to get my hands on a can or two of the Schuetzen powder, but every place I see is either GOEX or Swiss. ::

I've shot WANO and I agree that it is a very good powder. :results:

Ordering 25lbs is out of the question for me and I know no one with whom I could split it. :(
 
Quigleysharps4570:

Teleoceras I order my powder from Graf&Sons...4lb minimum order. Usually order more to make up for the hazmat fee. http://www.grafs.com/
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I've ordered from them before, but like I said they have only GOEX or Swiss. No Schuetzen and I haven't seen the WANO powder that they package as Graf's anymore either. :boohoo:
 
Same here on the 24/99 Elephant. I was totally satisfied with it. Clean burning and fast ignition in my Flinter. Ran out and bought another batch ,different year and what a difference! Total junk. Went back to Goex.
 
My last order of Grafs blackpowder was about 3 weeks ago...since then I see they've revamped their site and aren't showing Grafs on it. Was thinking of e-mailing them and finding out what was up on the Graf powder.
 
I have been using Elephant Lot#24/99 for years and it has been one of the best powders I ever used!
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Hi Tele...I miss your polls !

Interesting stuff, the vagaries of quality control...I bought 5 lbs of Elephant 3F a few years ago and the lot# was the same 24/99.

Couldn't shoot it in my Flintlocks at all, and worse, found it wouldn't work well enough in my caplocks to use either...just had too much ignition delay and the fouling was horrendous. I switched to Goex and every one of well over 3000 shots in my Flintlocks has been flawless ever since.

I looked for people in my local area who might have wanted it, couldn't find anyone...tried to sell it online just for shipping & hazmat fee, but ran into too much trouble trying to ship it...so I sat it on a shelf for a year and finally took it to a farmers bare field last spring, poured 4 and 3/4 lbs of Elephant out on the ground and set fire to it...kept the empty Elephant cans as souveniers.

Now that I'm thinking about Elephant again, I just remembered that I still have a can of Elephant 4F around somewhere...I use Goex 4F for priming and wouldn't bother changing that it's so perfect, but if the Elephant 4F will ignite as a main charge in the flinter, I could use it at the range for some little 30grn plinking loads...that would be about 233 shots out of a can of 4F, if it'll work.

A good reason to go to the range next Saturday !!
:front:
 
Well, from what I understand about Elephant powder, unless you find some NOS or a little old lady sitting on her deceased husband's powder magazine, you are going to be hard press to find any fresh stock. From what I understand they shut down operations and sold the land.

As far as Goex vs. Swiss and Schuetzen, I found the imported stuff burns cleaner in the larger bore gonnes 1" - 1.75".

Just :m2c: :results:
 
i just finished up my last can of Schuetzen powder and now have goex and find no difference in POA or load change in my T/C hawken .50 with PRB..............bob
 
Well, from what I understand about Elephant powder, unless you find some NOS or a little old lady sitting on her deceased husband's powder magazine, you are going to be hard press to find any fresh stock. From what I understand they shut down operations and sold the land.
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Trust me...I'm not looking for any more Elephant... :: ...the cases of Goex I have are simply outstanding.

And even though it's up this year to about $10.00/Lb delivered to my front porch, IMO Goex is the best price/performer ratio available
 
I have 1/2 a can of Elephant 24/99 FFFg.
IMO, it's dirty stuff...3 shots and wipe. I also have some more recient Elephant I haven't shot yet. If it's worse than the 24/99 I may have to go out and buy a cannon or something to use it in. ::

For the last year and a half, I've been using Swiss powder.
Incredable stuff. Higher velocity and almost no fouling.

Yes, it costs a little more (like twice as much) but compared with the new psudo black powders, it's cheap.
The Swiss ran about $16/pound. Pyrodex is about $17 (RS) or $21 (Select). The 777 around here is also in the 20s.

The way Ifigure it, if I can buy good black powder in the mid teens, why would I want to spend $20+/pound for something that doesn't work any better? ::
 
You know, most of the folks offering opinions here have been doing this for quite a while. That means that they are biased to their favorite powder. Since I am new to the game, I will offer my services to test them out. Someone send me a pound of each of the powders (in FFg) to be tested, and I will go shoot them up and give you my unbiased opinion. ::

(Hey, it's worth a shot - someone may take me seriously!)
 
On the label of the Graf's powder, it says, "Shuetzen Powder Company". It is not Wano. It is pretty equal to Goex. It may be a touch hotter, but it is also a touch dirtier. It is very consistant and accurate in my experience. If there is a Wano version, I have never seen it. The question is moot anyway. The Graf's store here in our area will not be getting any more of it in since all anyone wants is Goex. They will not order Swiss in either. I guess both will continue to be there in the catalog to be ordered, but neither will be stocked in the storefronts.
 
On the bottom righthand corner "Mfg. by Wano Schwarzpulver GmbH Kunigunde, Germany". On the bottom lefthand corner "Imported by Schuetzen Powder, LLC For Graf&Sons, Inc." That's on every can I've ever ordered from them. I might be misunderstanding that Wano part then.
 
Quigleysharps4570:

On the bottom righthand corner "Mfg. by Wano Schwarzpulver GmbH Kunigunde, Germany". On the bottom lefthand corner "Imported by Schuetzen Powder, LLC For Graf&Sons, Inc." That's on every can I've ever ordered from them. I might be misunderstanding that Wano part then.
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No, WANO and Schuetzen are part of the same larger company. It is disturbing to hear though that Graf's isn't getting anymore of that powder.:huh::curse:

I'm gonna call them Monday to see if there is any FFg still in stock.
 

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