Goex v. Pyrodex v. Triple 7

[Gene L]

Goex. I don't see any advantage to subs, (except shipping and availability) but I have can o pyrodex and aan of T 7, which I've never used. I bit the bullet and absorbed the hazmat fee. No one ever told me this is a cheap pastime.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I've been shooting muzzleloaders for nearly 55 years and have never used anything but black powder. I started off with it and ignored the subs when they started appearing.

I don't blame you there. I think I will like the true evil black best of all as well.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If I ever get off my butt and shoot the new Walker, I'll let you know. I have SWISS 3Fg., GOEX Olde Eynsford 3Fg., Hodgden Triple Se7en 3Fg., Pyrodex 30 grain pistol pellets. I'll let you know what I think once I get around to making some smoke with BP revolver. I have GOEX 2Fg. for the 1861 Springfield.

I know the Pyrodex pellets are convenient, but there are too many issues with performance accuracy that I would recommend the 2fg GOEX as the powder for the Walker. Try the 3fg powders and let us know what the Walker prefers.

 

[Ksacane]

I use Triple Seven in percussion revolvers, Pyrodex in percussion rifles, and Goex in flintlocks.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I know the Pyrodex pellets are convenient, but there are too many issues with performance accuracy that I would recommend the 2fg GOEX as the powder for the Walker. Try the 3fg powders and let us know what the Walker prefers.

Will do Grenadier, I watched a video of a guy shooting the Walker with the Pyrodex pellets, he loaded two, for 60 grains. I might do that just for kicks, but won't shoot 60 grains on a regular basis. Colt recommended 50 grains for the Colt Signature Series Walkers, made by Uberti, but assembled in USA. I'll start there. Maybe more accurate with 5 grains more or 5 grains less, or even less than that. We'll see what it likes and report back. Although it says use only FFFg, I know I can use the FFg in the Walker as well. Burns a little slower is all.

I've been reading up on the Walkers, watching video's others have posted. I take it all with a grain of salt. I've seen some real idiots in YouTube videos!
Here's what another recorded with chronograph with different loads, and the accuracy he achieved with the different loads. I suspect two different guns from the same manufacturer may have different tastes in the powder and load they like to eat.

As you can see the guy that did the article on Pyrodex Pellets had huge spreads in velocity between loads. Also, accuracy wasn't anything to brag about, but OK for 25 yards, I've seen worse posted for black powder revolvers at that distance. Of course some of that can be the shooters ability as well, so again I take it with a grain of salt.

Here are some of John Taffins results with an Armi San Marco Walker. Of course John is an excellent shot with any sixgun. Interesting to note he had his best groups with 55 grains of GOEX FFFg. The bottom part of the page is about the Walker, first part is history of Patterson to Walker history. It is hard to read in this format, but the chart at the bottom is the gist of it.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I've used about all of them over the years and they all require diligent cleaning of the weapon. My motto is to never let the sun go down on a dirty gun. That said, for the last several years all I've used is black powder and I hope that it never changes. I much prefer holy black over the subs. But......use what you can get.

Jeff H

I like that MOTTO! I suspect I will love the true evil black the best as well, if going over to the Dark Side,

may as well go black! Besides, who doesn't love that cloud of smoke huh? It is important I believe that we all try to bring others to black powder shooting, for if the younger generation is not active, and the market for black powder dwindles, the price will go up, and it could stop being manufactured if the demand got too low. Of course reenactors, SAR, and cannon's keep it in demand, but it is well we all do what we can to encourage others to try the sport, and offer any help we can.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've tried GOEX, and Pyrodex (and Elephant [now gone] and Diamondback [gone], and Graf's [Scheutzen]) and I like GOEX, or Graf's, but I will go with GOEX as first choice.

I found Elephant and Diamondback were very very dirty...which makes sense because the former was from Brazil, and the latter was produced in the same plant under a different company name... and I found that Pyrodex didn't have any advantages to me unless I had a house fire or was in an apartment (or a jurisdiction) with restrictions on possession of real black powder. . When moving over to flinters the Pyrodex won't work in the pan, and doesn't make for good blanks either.

PLUS with the politics around guns, I prefer to spend a dollar more for GOEX over Graf's, to support the black powder company producing the product in America. You can never tell when some Oaf in DC is going to get a law passed that will muck-up importation of powder from overseas. I'd like there to be a company "in country" that makes the stuff and is still in business. (I heard a rumor though that GOEX was going to, or has, moved some or all of its manufacturing to Mexico ??? )

GOEX works well, hits targets, harvests deer and other tasty critters.

LD

 

[preventec47]

Actually there is something scientific about them which is important. Pyrodex and Triple 7 smoke-fumes contain cyanide and black powder does not.

Breathing cyanide is not good. Breathing cyanide is even more dangerous when shooting at a range that has low ceilings and poor circulation.

I will keep my Goex.

I have my doubts and that is I cannot believe they could sell something that was producing breathable cyanide.
( Govt regs etc) Especially without putting huge warnings on the packages etc. Also, For every item sold that could in any way be consumed there are the Federally required MSDS ( I may not have that exactly right) but I think it stands for material safety data sheets which contains all ingredients. FishDFly, can you substantiate this info in any way ? Will the mfgr admit to this if you call them ?

 

[FishDFly]

Yes I can, I will send you a personal message to another forum where you can find all the details oncnwhere you

I have my doubts and that is I cannot believe they could sell something that was producing breathable cyanide.
( Govt regs etc) Especially without putting huge warnings on the packages etc. Also, For every item sold that could in any way be consumed there are the Federally required MSDS ( I may not have that exactly right) but I think it stands for material safety data sheets which contains all ingredients. FishDFly, can you substantiate this info in any way ? Will the mfgr admit to this if you call them ?

 

[FishDFly]

If you look at the patent for Pyrodex you see another chemical not found in the 777. That being dicyanamide (spelling?). This dicyanamide is an corrosion preventer for the powder before powder combustion. It keeps the charge from attacking and pit corroding the bore where the powder grains come in contact with the bore. Now during powder combustion that is broken down and it gives off pure cyanide or potassium cyanide.

 

[FishDFly]

Yes I can, I will send you a personal message to another forum where you can find all the details.

 

[Tim L]

MSDS sheets

 

[Dave Orchard]

STAY THE HADES AWAY FROM PYRODEX!!!
It is highly corrosive!
I load any BP I can get in MLs, and Triple 7 works well in cart. Shotgun & .50-70( just don't compress it like you would black.)
Dave

 

[Carbon 6]

If you look at the patent for Pyrodex you see another chemical not found in the 777. That being dicyanamide (spelling?). This dicyanamide is an corrosion preventer for the powder before powder combustion. It keeps the charge from attacking and pit corroding the bore where the powder grains come in contact with the bore. Now during powder combustion that is broken down and it gives off pure cyanide or potassium cyanide.

While the highlighted segments are partially true, it seems you have the applications and mechanisms wrong. I would be quite interested in any data you have on these claims.

 

[cannonball1]

I've been at this since 1972 and my favorite thing to do is make the muzzleloaders, see how straight it would shoot, and sell it. Then start all over again. I have always liked to "build a better mouse trap" or in this case "shoot the mouse", so when a advertised better powder came out I was there, seeing how good it was. Is here my personal conclusions: 80% of the guns I've shot had a tighter group with black powder than the substitutes, except BH209. I used to use Goex, but now use Swiss which is more consistent, hotter, and cleaner. With 20% of the guns it either didn't matter which substitutes you used. There certainly was some difference, but not enough for me to care. Also one of the main factors of using BP is it was less resistant to temperature change. On the lighter side, who wouldn't rather see a larger plume of smoke in the air.

 

[FishDFly]

While the highlighted segments are partially true, it seems you have the applications and mechanisms wrong. I would be quite interested in any data you have on these claims.

Send me a private message and I will provide where you can read the information for your self. You will learn a lot more there than here on the dangers of Pyrodex and some chemistry as well.

fdf

 

[Carbon 6]

Send me a private message and I will provide where you can read the information for your self. You will learn a lot more there than here on the dangers of Pyrodex and some chemistry as well.

fdf

I don't see the need for a PM. If your source is credible you should be able to post your information publicly. The MSDS, CAS registry, CDC, NIOSH, PubChem and other chemical databases are open to the public. You can find all the pertinent answers there.....

I'm not interested in gossip from other forums. I prefer verifiable facts.
All that said, I'll take Goex any day of the week, and I'm not looking for an argument....Just verifiable facts.

 

[Bent Sight]

I found this when I searched dicyanamide. https://www.camp22.org/black-powder-pages/safety-of-black-powder-vs-substitutes . I also found this http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=4027.0 .

It definitely makes a person think. I am going to look into this further before purchasing any more Pyrodex.

 

[Carbon 6]

I am going to look into this further .

I hope you do. You would do well to stay away from forum gossip though.

Can't wait to see the expression on your face when you find out you've been eating cyanoguanidine.

Best of luck and may your educational journey be fruitful.

 

[FishDFly]

I don't see the need for a PM. If your source is credible you should be able to post your information publicly. The MSDS, CAS registry, CDC, NIOSH, PubChem and other chemical databases are open to the public. You can find all the pertinent answers there.....

I'm not interested in gossip from other forums. I prefer verifiable facts.
All that said, I'll take Goex any day of the week, and I'm not looking for an argument....Just verifiable facts.

I don't see the need for a PM. If your source is credible you should be able to post your information publicly. The MSDS, CAS registry, CDC, NIOSH, PubChem and other chemical databases are open to the public. You can find all the pertinent answers there.....

I'm not interested in gossip from other forums. I prefer verifiable facts.
All that said, I'll take Goex any day of the week, and I'm not looking for an argument....Just verifiable facts.

Fine, go to americanlongrifles.com go to blackpowder and read in the pyrodex thread and read all you wish.