Good deal on first blackpowder?

[woodsmith]

I've been wanting to get into blackpowder shooting for a while but the time never seemed quite right (nowhere to shoot, lived on campus in college - no guns allowed - etc). Finally decided there's not going to be a "right" time and I'm just going to have to go for it. I've been reading about my various options. I'd eventually like to move to a flintlock, but in general it seems a percussion rifle is the way to get started. So, to that end, I've come across a used TC Hawken 50 cal percussion. It seems to have had very little use. I've only seen pictures (online deal) but the stock is clean with no obvious wear or scratches and the blueing looks like it's in great shape. There may be some discoloration on the patch box (hard to tell from the photo) and I haven't seen the bore yet (waiting for those pictures). I don't know a lot about muzzle loading rifles, but I've been reading all I can. The TC Hawken seems to be regarded as a very good production gun - not the most historically accurate but a good, reliable shooter. This one seems to be in very close to new condition, but I can't examine it in person due to distance.

The Hawken is being sold along with a pistol - it seems to be a reproduction of an 1851 Colt Army in steel with brass guard. I'm basing this on comparisions to photos - not very familiar with rifles and even less so with pistols! The pistol is labeled "F.LLipietta" and .44 caliber. Also included is a capper, powder measure and canister along with some balls for the pistol. It all seems to be in good shape, the seller says he has test fired all the pieces and they work (I don't know him personally but have no reason to suspect he would lie/exaggerate the condition of the guns, but I don't think he's a gunsmith either).

Sorry for the long introduction, my main questions are: how does this sound for a beginner outfit? The pistol is a nice bonus, but I'm mostly trying to get my hands on a good rifle. I'll still need to pick up a few accessories I think (a ball starter at the very least probably). He's asking $400 for the set - which is at the very highest limit of what I can afford but it's (barely) doable. Does this sound like a fair price? I keep reading about people paying $100-$150 for a TC Hawken, but it seems usually those are well used specimens or have rusted bores. If this gun is in the described shape it is very nearly new.

Alright - sorry for the long first post! The goal would be to become proficient enough to hunt during the black powder deer season in December so I'm very tempted to jump on this. Thanks for any advice.

Edit - one last note, I haven't had a lot of luck finding used muzzle loaders locally. I might just be looking in the wrong places, going to try to hit up some of the pawn shops.

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. sep 23 / 2:55am


yes, that would be a pretty good deal for a t/c hawken and a pietta .44, but the colt is either an 1851 navy or an 1860 army - there isn't an 1851 army, per se.

the hawken can run from $290 to $680 used depending on condition (obviously the lowest = the worst) and the revolver can be almost anything these days.. cabela is selling an 1851 navy with brass frame for $150 while the steel frame is $250 new.

there's also auctions to look at, but prices are usually higher and you have fewer options for returns.. also, we have a pretty good selection of both rifles and revolvers right here on the "firearms for sale" section.. some prices are too good to last more than a few days while others are ... ummm "wishful thinking" on the sellers part.

keep in mind that you will need blackpowder, a supply of percussion caps in the size recommended by the mfg, lead rounds that must match the bore of each weapon, maybe a nipple wrench, some lubricating substances (gun oil and patch lube), patch material, maybe a caliper, and a few other things.

pictures would definitely help in the evaluation..

~d~

 

[rafterob]

I don't know where in NC you are, but I,m in the western part. A good condition TC Hawkin goes for $250 tops around here because there are lots of them out there. Most pawn shops if you offer cash on the spot will give you a good amount off of what they are asking. The trick is to look around at other stuff first and not act too terribly interested and then offer them a lowball price "on a whim" like "that might be kinda fun to try out". Remember a lot of that stuff they have has been just sitting there for a long time.

 

[bdhutier]

IMO, a Hawken is an excellent first rifle for beginners (which I still am myself!). In the .50, they're pretty much a catch-all weapon, you can hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and they're quality weapons which can be cheap to buy.

The 1851 Navy is also a good weapon. Mine's a little "temperamental," but now that I've figured out what mine likes and how to handle it, it's no problem.

My advice is to try a gun show first. You can put hands-on the weapon, check the action and the bore, and really give it a good look-over. The other benefit is the sellers will often let them go for cheap because there isn't as much interest in them (most ppl are there to buy a Glock, or something like that), and they probably don't have a real good idea of what they actually have! I'd try that first, myself.

$400 for both is, IMO, a good deal. You may find a better deal out there somewhere, but it's a fair price. Just be careful where you're buying them, don't get ripped off!

 

[ozark57]

Try yor local pawn shops. I just got back into black powder shooting and set out to update my collection. I placed an ad on a local radio want ad show (dial-a-trade) looking to buy a traditional bp rifle and got several calls. In a 3 week period that incuded searching several pawn shops and free want ads, plus 1 gun show, here is what I found. I nice .45 flintlock for $90, a T/C Hawkin for $125, a Colt gen.2 1851 for $140, and a custom Kentucky .36 with beautiful pattern stock and a green mountain bbl. for $600. Today a man is bringing me an Italian .50 he says is perfect for $75. I will trade off what I don't want eventualy, but for now I will shoot them all to see what I like( I have already fallen in love with the Kentucky). So many non-enthusiest hunters have bought those modern souless plastic stocked things we may not discuss here, leaving us some good buys.
Before you go out in search buy one of those little penlights that you can drop into the bore to see it's condition.
Good Hunting!

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Now that sounds like a great idea! It pays to advertise!:thumbsup:

 

[bob308]

i think 400 is a little strong. t-c hawkens are every where. there are some that think they are realy worth something. they do make a good shooter if you put a better barrel on it.

check out the gun auctions. auction arms and gun broker.com i have bought rifles and pistols on both and have had no problems.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Just cause he's asking $400.00 doesn't mean he won't settle on $375.00 when you counter-offer him $350.00 for the set. Tell him you might not want to keep the revolver, or some other thing, and see what happens, who knows, maybe you just saved enough to buy some of the other things that you need, like your first pound of real powder and a nipple wrench or two :hmm:

Dave

 

[woodsmith]

Thanks everybody. I'm still tempted, but that's a pretty big outlay. Think I may hold off and check out some other options.

 

[jan buck]

gun broker

tc hawken-180.00
tc hawken-175.00
tc hawken-220.00
tc renegade-165.00
tc renegade-179.00
all bought since may of '09
check 'em out

 

[mjones1579]

I have bought two on gunbroker that were advertised "Like New" and found the bores completely rusted out from neglect. Probably used one time then put away without cleaning. I got one cheap enough that a used barrel fixed it up. The other one I had to send back (still haven't recieved my money). Make sure they inspect the bore and give you a time limit to return it if you are not satisfied. What really chaps you is that both were gun dealers, that knew better. Ah well "Let the buyer beware."

 

[ozark57]

I agree. I have had some bad experiances too. The best way to check out a gun is in your hands. The guns that look perfect on the outside may in fact be the worst as far as bores go. Shot once or twice, never cleaned, stored 10 years. A gun with some wear may likley mean someone owned it who used it, and took care of it.
You can refinish a stock, a badly pitted bore is a badly pitted bore.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

That was well stated! :thumbsup:

 

[buzz]

may you should put a wanted ad here on the boards forsale section might help
pawn shops and gun shows are good places as well
I had good luck so far on the forsale here
also check cabelas as they have some good sales
and they have sets witch get you everything you need for that first trip to the range
best of luck in your search