Thanks for the help on shooting low with my Tulle. I took your advice and did the following. I increased my powder charge to 80 grains, got my cheek up off the stock, used a good rest, cut down with my flinching and tried hard to follow through. Now that I am no longer shooting low, I consistently shoot about 10 inches to the rt at 30 yds. Interestingly, my buddy also shoots this gun to the rt. When sighting down the barrell (42 inches) I believe that I can actually see it bent slightly to the rt. I understand that these barrels can be bent slightly (by professionsls) to the rt or left. Would you recommend this, or would you just compensate. I really dont like the idea of compensating, but I will if bending the barrell is not really an advisable action. what do you think??
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Got my P.O.I. up but now shooting to the rt.
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Although I have never bent a barrel (on purpose) it can be done by anyone with caution...
My thoughts on barrel bending...
First off, see if bending the front "sight" would do the job before you try the barrel...
The things to remember during barrel bending are...
1. Take it off the stock before you do this, don't want to crack the wood...
2. A very small amount of bending is required to move 10 inches at 30 yds... (it works the same an adjusting the rear sight, just a few clicks will do)
3. Pad the barrel so it don't get scratched...
4. Be careful not to fold or crease the barrel...
5. Don't over bend, you will just have to bend it back the other direction and weaken the metal... (it is better to do small amounts and shoot to see where you are at than it is to over bend)
6. Bend about 1/2 to 2/3 ways up the barrel where the walls are thinner than the breach area...
7. Make sure you bend it in the right direction...
(this could get confusing, if you are shooting to the right then you need to bring the front of the barrel to the right to bring it back on center, or the rear of the barrel to the left...
Depending on which end of the barrel is in the vise, the bending direction will change to get the same results, confused?)
My thoughts on barrel bending...
First off, see if bending the front "sight" would do the job before you try the barrel...
The things to remember during barrel bending are...
1. Take it off the stock before you do this, don't want to crack the wood...
2. A very small amount of bending is required to move 10 inches at 30 yds... (it works the same an adjusting the rear sight, just a few clicks will do)
3. Pad the barrel so it don't get scratched...
4. Be careful not to fold or crease the barrel...
5. Don't over bend, you will just have to bend it back the other direction and weaken the metal... (it is better to do small amounts and shoot to see where you are at than it is to over bend)
6. Bend about 1/2 to 2/3 ways up the barrel where the walls are thinner than the breach area...
7. Make sure you bend it in the right direction...
(this could get confusing, if you are shooting to the right then you need to bring the front of the barrel to the right to bring it back on center, or the rear of the barrel to the left...
Depending on which end of the barrel is in the vise, the bending direction will change to get the same results, confused?)
If you E-mail the gentleman below he can steer you to a sight that has a pattern for a jig to bend barrels, I lost the URL but he will have it as he made the jig I believe.
[email protected]
[email protected]
how about removing the front sight and re-soldering it back on a little to the right. remember move front towards point of impact and rear sight away. :m2c:
Hi guys, FYI I saw a good acronym for remembering how to move your sights, its FORS = Front Opposite Rear Same. Front sight drift the opposite way you want impact to shift, rear sight drift the same way you want the impact to shift. As to bending a barrel, let us know how it works. I want to buy a smoothbore but tweaking a barrel to get it to shoot correctly has me scared off. Hate to spend good money on a gun and ruin a barrel :curse: trying to get it to shoot straight! That would be painful........
I tossed you an email with the url but for everyone else , here it is
http://marina.fortunecity.com/seaview/283/mypage4.html
Bending barrels is rather easy and if done the way I show on the website is very safe and will not harm the barrel.It's a very controllable method. I have done several barrels with this jig and never a problem.Beats the fork of a tree !
http://marina.fortunecity.com/seaview/283/mypage4.html
Bending barrels is rather easy and if done the way I show on the website is very safe and will not harm the barrel.It's a very controllable method. I have done several barrels with this jig and never a problem.Beats the fork of a tree !
Rat
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JM it's been my experience that as long as the barrel IS straight, it will shoot straight. I've put rifle sights on a lot of modern shotguns, and on my Bess, and if I get the sights perfectly centered on the barrel, the windage will be right on.
[url] Wow...again[/url], on this barrel-bending...why not just put on some nice long-rifle sights?
:nono:
Theorhetical question: if you bend a barrel right or left to compensate for aiming error: let's say you bend it right. Will that barrel not shoot more and more right as range increases...if it's bent to the right? I mean, when you move a front or rear sight left or right, you are just forcing your self to point the barrel in the "right" direction. If the muzzle of the weapon is bent or facing one direction or the other...let's say the left...seems like the projectile will keep going in that direction..to the left...more and more as range increases...it might be on at 30 yards...but won't it then be shooting left at 40-50-60 yards?? (and some other place at 25 yards??) (kind of like not having a scope parellel with the bore?)
::
Or is everybody really satisfied with a 25 yard maximum range on their smoothbores???
:cry:
I'd sure hate to buy a second hand smoothie someday...and discover that someone had bent the barrel!!!
:curse:
Last question, does this right-shooting smoothie also throw it's shot patterns to the right? If not...and you bend the barrel left...???
Rat. ??
[url] Wow...again[/url], on this barrel-bending...why not just put on some nice long-rifle sights?
:nono:
Theorhetical question: if you bend a barrel right or left to compensate for aiming error: let's say you bend it right. Will that barrel not shoot more and more right as range increases...if it's bent to the right? I mean, when you move a front or rear sight left or right, you are just forcing your self to point the barrel in the "right" direction. If the muzzle of the weapon is bent or facing one direction or the other...let's say the left...seems like the projectile will keep going in that direction..to the left...more and more as range increases...it might be on at 30 yards...but won't it then be shooting left at 40-50-60 yards?? (and some other place at 25 yards??) (kind of like not having a scope parellel with the bore?)
::
Or is everybody really satisfied with a 25 yard maximum range on their smoothbores???
:cry:
I'd sure hate to buy a second hand smoothie someday...and discover that someone had bent the barrel!!!
:curse:
Last question, does this right-shooting smoothie also throw it's shot patterns to the right? If not...and you bend the barrel left...???
Rat. ??
Last edited by a moderator:
Rat, I have had those same thoughts myself, I am not at all opposed to putting rifle sights on this gun. However, upon very close examination, it appears that the barrel deviates ever so slightly to the rt. In this case, It would be more "straightening" the barrel than bending it. I dont dare do this myself, I called the maker and was told they will do this procedure for me. What do you think about this? thanks for all of your thoughts and comments, this has been a very helpful bunch and I appreciate you all.
"I'd sure hate to buy a second hand smoothie someday...and discover that someone had bent the barrel!!!'
It is a very common practice and has been for a long time, many rilfed barrels are not true(runout) and can be made true by positioning when breeching or with the sights, barrel bending is not witchcraft nor something that hurts the barrel if done properly and is just another part of the game for the veterans of smoothie shooting/building.
It is a very common practice and has been for a long time, many rilfed barrels are not true(runout) and can be made true by positioning when breeching or with the sights, barrel bending is not witchcraft nor something that hurts the barrel if done properly and is just another part of the game for the veterans of smoothie shooting/building.
The ball or shot continues to go forward in the direction it left the barrel, not continually curving.Once having left the barrel, the load is in no way controlled by the barrel. By bending the barrel you are just getting it going in the right direction.
Perfectly straight barrels can be off too, not because they are bent but because they were inlet wrong into the stock. Almost every smoothbore I have worked on shot low about 12-18" at 25 yds. Why ? People don't take the time to inlet the barrel into the stock parallel with the stock. The breech , being larger in diameter takes more inletting and folks take shortcuts, like not inletting it into the wood all the way . So what happens is , you start out with a barrel pointing low from the git go. Think about it.
Regulating barels is no smoke and mirrors, hocus pocus or black magic. Read some old books on the subject as I have and you will see that it is an acceptable method of getting a gun to shoot to point of aim.
If I found a used smooth gun for sale that had a bent barrel, I'd know I had found a shooter.
Perfectly straight barrels can be off too, not because they are bent but because they were inlet wrong into the stock. Almost every smoothbore I have worked on shot low about 12-18" at 25 yds. Why ? People don't take the time to inlet the barrel into the stock parallel with the stock. The breech , being larger in diameter takes more inletting and folks take shortcuts, like not inletting it into the wood all the way . So what happens is , you start out with a barrel pointing low from the git go. Think about it.
Regulating barels is no smoke and mirrors, hocus pocus or black magic. Read some old books on the subject as I have and you will see that it is an acceptable method of getting a gun to shoot to point of aim.
If I found a used smooth gun for sale that had a bent barrel, I'd know I had found a shooter.
Guest
Nothing wrong with bending a barrel "as long as it doesn
Guest
Good point. This is likely due to people cutting out the stock profile before inletting the barrel. Stock dimentions such as drop at comb, drop at heel are measured from line of sight. If the profile is cut out and then the barrel is inlet, you can run into the very problem you describe. However, if you inlet the barrel FIRST, then you can map out the butt measurements from the ACTUAL line of sight and cut out the profile, this problem can be avoided.
I've also seen barrels where the bore at the breech was not in the center of the barrel! You would think such things would not make it past QC, but they are out there. Dixie sold bunches like this, but relatively cheaply and they did warn you to use the "better end" for the muzzle. :shocking:
I would not have the . . . fortitude to bend a smoothbore barrel myself. I can just picture in my mind the sickening feeling when it suddenly becomes easier to push because the barrel wall had collapsed. Hollow cylinders go all at once when they go. I've destroyed enough brass fuel tubing in my day to justify sending it to a professional.
I would not have the . . . fortitude to bend a smoothbore barrel myself. I can just picture in my mind the sickening feeling when it suddenly becomes easier to push because the barrel wall had collapsed. Hollow cylinders go all at once when they go. I've destroyed enough brass fuel tubing in my day to justify sending it to a professional.
By all means, if you are not comfortable doing it , don't.But I will say, our method has taken most if not all of the risk out.I had one barrel that had to be bent at least 8" off parallel just to get 1/8" of adjustment. With the system we use, the clamp allows you plenty of "getting the feel" so to speak.
BTW some barrels will show definite "bend" after being done. One I adjusted, set the National record at 100 yds (47pts) and it had a real sway belly to it.
BTW some barrels will show definite "bend" after being done. One I adjusted, set the National record at 100 yds (47pts) and it had a real sway belly to it.
FlintTim, once the barrel has been bent, does it have any "memory" and try to right itself back to the way it was???
Also, once a barrel has been bent, does the stock need to be adjusted to allow the barrel it's new path???
Also, once a barrel has been bent, does the stock need to be adjusted to allow the barrel it's new path???
I didn't say I wouldn't have it done. I just know I'd have more of an eventual bill built up for the trip to Mr. Gunsmith if I'd a tried it myself. :redface: I guess I'd trust a jig arrangement where I could do little, measureable adjustments, like the turn of a clamp screw in the center (especially with a mandrel of some type inside for wall support), but never where I was stickin the barrel between trees and yankin, or driving over it with the car, etc.
I read an account where an Indian traded for a musket and he and his friends immediately went outside the fort and spent as long as was necessary that day shooting and adjusting it with the help of a fork of a tree. The author said that it certainly paid off down range.
I've been lucky in that the two smooth ball guns I've owned have both shot where pointed. For all I know the first one was "regulated" before I picked it up. It was a Kit Ravenshear, and he had a young apprentice on loan from Getz who, I am told, was a smoothbore champion. I'd be in a 6" bullseye at 50 yards more than I was out with her.
My other, ol' Blunderpotz, has a short 28", 12 ga. single-barrel, but was from a kit and I did what I could to get the breech directly under my eye. I think that helps tremendously.
I read an account where an Indian traded for a musket and he and his friends immediately went outside the fort and spent as long as was necessary that day shooting and adjusting it with the help of a fork of a tree. The author said that it certainly paid off down range.
I've been lucky in that the two smooth ball guns I've owned have both shot where pointed. For all I know the first one was "regulated" before I picked it up. It was a Kit Ravenshear, and he had a young apprentice on loan from Getz who, I am told, was a smoothbore champion. I'd be in a 6" bullseye at 50 yards more than I was out with her.
My other, ol' Blunderpotz, has a short 28", 12 ga. single-barrel, but was from a kit and I did what I could to get the breech directly under my eye. I think that helps tremendously.
Rat
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Boy this barrel bending thing is bending my mind!!
On my Brown Bess, carbine, I slotted the bayonet lug, and put in a blade. I then ran a string, (dental floss actually) from the front sight to the tang screw hole, and got the string centered in that, and then positioned the rear sight so that the string ran perfectly centered in the rear sight notch, going from the front sight to the center of the tang-hole, and soldered it on.
This gun shoots dead-on windage-wise...or at least the group is circular and centered with Point Of Aim. ("Pin-wheels" at 25 yards is NOT a problem)
I've done this quite a bit with modern, single-shot shot-guns (make nice little "slug guns" out of old neglected single shot shotguns) and the results have always been the same, when the sights are perfectly alligned on the barrel, these guns are always "on" windage-wise, and then just require filing the front sight down until they are on elevation-wise.
Maybe the longer fowler barrels act differently...Bess's barrel is only about 31". Could the problem really be warped fore-end wood??
Rat
On my Brown Bess, carbine, I slotted the bayonet lug, and put in a blade. I then ran a string, (dental floss actually) from the front sight to the tang screw hole, and got the string centered in that, and then positioned the rear sight so that the string ran perfectly centered in the rear sight notch, going from the front sight to the center of the tang-hole, and soldered it on.
This gun shoots dead-on windage-wise...or at least the group is circular and centered with Point Of Aim. ("Pin-wheels" at 25 yards is NOT a problem)
I've done this quite a bit with modern, single-shot shot-guns (make nice little "slug guns" out of old neglected single shot shotguns) and the results have always been the same, when the sights are perfectly alligned on the barrel, these guns are always "on" windage-wise, and then just require filing the front sight down until they are on elevation-wise.
Maybe the longer fowler barrels act differently...Bess's barrel is only about 31". Could the problem really be warped fore-end wood??
Rat
My experience has been that over several hundred shots the barrel does tend to start going back to where it was.That's why it's important (as said on my website) to record which drill bit you used as a clearance guage when finished bending. This way you can always check the thing and you have a record on where to go back to if it does retain it's memeory
