GPR 1 in 32 or 1 in 60

[larry wv]

I have killed a few deer with the .54 real 300 grain in .54 cal. It expands real good and was accurate in a 1-48 renegade. 120 gr 3f. :shocked2: Don't ask I was young and dumb thought it was suppposed to kick. Would say I also shot 120 gr 3f and a 430 gr maxi a lot but would like to forget that. :idunno: Larry

 

[BrownBear]

"The 300's fared a lot better at both ranges, but for 100 yard game, I'm going to call them marginal. Groups were 6-8", and only that good when you really stiffed up the powder charge."

I'd love to see what the velocities were. The REAL is actually kinda blunt nosed compared to a round ball. At 300 grains for the REAL, I can't help but wonder if the 225 grain round ball wouldn't be going just as fast out to 100yds.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. It has nothing to do with comparing the velocities of RB versus the REAL. The point is that in my experience, as velocities drop on conicals from a slow twist barrel, the groups really start to spread.

You just need the extra velocity to get the conical spinning fast enough out of a slow-twist barrel for stability, and as you lose that velocity you lose your stability. And of course, the longer the bullet the faster you'll have to drive it. And the longer the bullet the heavier it is, and the more recoil you generate. I never got the 380's going fast enough to stabilize them, and as quickly as the 300's started spreading, I'm pretty sure they were only marginally stable.

In any case, they aren't long range shooters out of slow twist barrels, even if you can get them to stabilize at shorter range. In my experience accuracy with them is gone within what I see as the effective range of an RB, so there's really no point in shooting them out of a slow twist. RB's are just fine inside 100 yards. And if I feel the need for more power than I get from one of my 54's, I just switch to a 58!

 

[OLDPUPPYMAX]

I bought a Past 1/2" recoil pad for use with my 30 06 and it can sure come in handy with the GPR and an 80 gr load. I found that as you get closer to 60, you become more concerned with comfort!

 

[David W.]

Thanks everyone for all the great information. I never even considered the recoil.
I would be shooting targets mostly at 50 yards, most shots at deer where I hunt would be under 60 yards but I would like to be able to preseant a good kill shot out to 100 yards. It sounds like the round ball would fit the bill.

I think you will be over all more happy with the round ball twist and cheaper shooting cost of PRB's. I have never had a problem killing deer with a .50 and a PRB out to 100 yards.

I now have a .62 but that is mainly because I purchased some match grade H&H barrels at a great price because they went out of business. What a shame, they were the best barrels ever made.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Oldpuppy,
You're not that old :wink: . With a patched round ball and 80 grains of FFg, recoil is very mild. I got a .54 T/C Hawkens with a 1 in 48" twist barrel for conicals. My GPRs are strickly for round balls. It's hard to believe that such a good deer load can be so accurate and mellow :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

It's hard to believe that such a good deer load can be so accurate and mellow :thumbsup:

And that's the truth. I'm downright amazed how well RBs work on deer after so many (non-muzzleloading) years hearing criticism. Of course, that was coming from folks that sold or pimped modern guns.

 

[Dan_T]

Based on what everyone is saying here I think the RB will be fine for what I am looking to do with this rifle.
Now I am wondering if I should go with the .54 cal. or the .50 cal.? Whitetail deer will probably be the only big game animal I will hunt with this rifle. Is the .54 overkill for want I want to do? Oh and thanks for everyones input you all have been very helpful. :bow:

 

[longcruise]

Conicals are slower starting out than roundballs but maintain their velocity much longer than roundball because roundballs shed velocity really fast. I agree with BrownBear, it depends on how you hunt. A roundball it seems, would shoot flatter up to a distance than a conical would but soon loose it's fizz after that. You do the math.

That's some math that I did once and came to the conclusion that the real limiting factor in the range of both the conical and RB on big game is the shooters ability to shoot accurately with the sights and the ability to judge the distance. The conical hangs onto more energy and velocity than the rb but since it starts out so much slower, the trajectories are the same to within fractions of an inch out to maximum probable ranges of, say, 150 yards. Some may be willing to shoot further of course, but I lean more and more toward a 75 yard max as my own personal limit.

I always wondered about this... shouldnt the twist rate of conical barrels be respective to caliber too? The .50 caliber GPH and the .54 caliber GPH both have a 1:32 rate of twist... Odd. I imagine that recoil may be uncomfortable with the .54 GPH and the curved buttplate but I really don't know. If they offered the .54 caliber roundball rifle with a 1:66 rate of twist that would be nice.

The diff between .50 and .54 in a 1:32 twist is not going to make much any difference as far as stability goes. Stability being mostly a factor of length/spin rate. The guys who shoot $***t$ need a twist rate for the caliber of bullet being shot regardless of the caliber of the barrel.

My old GPR from late '70's to early '80's has a 1:66 twist. Somewhere in the late '80's or early '90's they went to a 1:60. Since they don't brag on it, I'm guessing it was more a matter of production conveniance and cost than anything else!

 

[longcruise]

Is the .54 overkill for want I want to do?

Not at all. It's a great deer caliber and will be there and available in case you do decide to go after something bigger.

Then again, I just have a soft spot for the .54.

 

[BrownBear]

Is the .54 overkill for want I want to do?

Not at all. It's a great deer caliber and will be there and available in case you do decide to go after something bigger.

Then again, I just have a soft spot for the .54.

"Overkill" is pretty subjective. With 30-35 grains of Goex 3f or Pyrodex P, my 54 cal GPR is one of my favorite guns for mashing snowshoe hare heads. It's super accurate, and for head shots the bigger ball is no prob at all.

I agree that the 54 is really versatile for mice to moose.

 

[nkbj]

Hey BrownBear.
Yeah, I savvied what you were saying. It just got me to wondering that at ranges where the REAL was workable in the slow twist barrel, maybe the round ball was going to be moving just as fast on the receiving end.

 

[BrownBear]

The way I'm loading, velocities might be pretty comparable at 100 yards, but I bet the ball is traveling faster inside 75 or so. Never thought of it that way, but it's a good question. I'm not shooting past 75 anyway, but thinkin is supposed to be good for us. :wink: