GPR restock question
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windwalker_au
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tony track of the wolf did do one for the invest arms hawkin which can be used for the great plains rifle.
bernie :thumbsup: [url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...List.aspx?catID=14&subID=153&styleID=632[/url]
bernie :thumbsup: [url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...List.aspx?catID=14&subID=153&styleID=632[/url]
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I know that I will catch a lot of heat for this, but I gotta ask why?
You will probably spend over $100 for that stock, and in the end you will only have an expensive GPR that will not return the expense when you decide to sell it.
If you want a full stock plains style rifle, build an historically correct one, or have one made right.
If it's beyond your budget to have a custom rifle made, it will probably also be beyond your budget to waste good money on a rifle that will not return that expense at a later date.
IF you can afford $100 bucks for a stock, save up another coupla hundred for a lock and barrel in the next few months or in the next year.
I hate to see people waste good money on a cheap gun when they could have a LOT nicer gun in a year from now.
J.D.
You will probably spend over $100 for that stock, and in the end you will only have an expensive GPR that will not return the expense when you decide to sell it.
If you want a full stock plains style rifle, build an historically correct one, or have one made right.
If it's beyond your budget to have a custom rifle made, it will probably also be beyond your budget to waste good money on a rifle that will not return that expense at a later date.
IF you can afford $100 bucks for a stock, save up another coupla hundred for a lock and barrel in the next few months or in the next year.
I hate to see people waste good money on a cheap gun when they could have a LOT nicer gun in a year from now.
J.D.
Windwalker, thanks for the info.
JD, I really don't know quite how to take your reply. First of all, my wanting to put a full stock on my rifle is purely because I would like the look. In this case, I'm not worried about it being period correct. It's not a matter of what I can afford and it's my policy never to sell guns so I'm not worried about resale. The GPR is by no means a custom gun, but I don't consider it a cheap gun either.
I asked a simple question. If you had nothing more to offer than your opinions on how I should spend my money and what you consider a good investment, then you really shouldn't have replied.I guess some people just like to hear themselves type. :yakyak:
Tony
JD, I really don't know quite how to take your reply. First of all, my wanting to put a full stock on my rifle is purely because I would like the look. In this case, I'm not worried about it being period correct. It's not a matter of what I can afford and it's my policy never to sell guns so I'm not worried about resale. The GPR is by no means a custom gun, but I don't consider it a cheap gun either.
I asked a simple question. If you had nothing more to offer than your opinions on how I should spend my money and what you consider a good investment, then you really shouldn't have replied.I guess some people just like to hear themselves type. :yakyak:
Tony
Desert Ratxx
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woodsman said:
Amen to that, I just finished a re-build that took a better part of a year. It wasn't a fine piece to start with and it isn't now either, it's just different. I could have gotten better parts but the ones I used had value for me and me alone. I say go for it and don't look back.
woodsman said:
You can spend you money any way you want.
I continually see people buying cheap guns, some of them are good quality, but still comparitively cheap, and then spend more money on them than those guns will ever be worth.
IMHO, those same people spend more on trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear than they would by buying that silk purse, a nice gun, to begin with.
I'm just amazed that so many people have to have instant gratification, at any cost, rather than delaying that gratification until they can acquire a good gun.
Good luck with your restock.
J.D.
JD, once again you have managed to completely miss the point. You know nothing about me,my financial situation or what kind of firearm that I desire and what it might represent to me. Instead, armed with what little information as was contained in my original question, you took it upon yourself to sit in judgement and berate me for not following your particular path.
I don't think that this is a question of a silk purse or a sow's ear, but rather the ramblings of a horses ass.
Sincerely, Tony
I don't think that this is a question of a silk purse or a sow's ear, but rather the ramblings of a horses ass.
Sincerely, Tony
MikeChapin
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woodsman said:
It's the best reason in the world. It depends on how much work you want to do. The original stock on my CVA Mountain Rifle did not have enough pull or drop for my taste. When I restocked my Mountain Rifle, I got a Leman precarved half stock from Pecatonica. I had to inlet the lock and all the rest of the furnature. At the time it was a learning experience.
You should be able to get just about any style of stock with the right sized barrel channel cut. You will have to readjust the underlugs and add one for a full length stock. You will also have to get some different ramrod ferrels. The ones on the underrib will probably not work.
When I did the Leman conversion on my Mountain Rifle, I put on a different nose cap because I didn't really like the squareish pewter one on the original. That meant I had to go with an iron nosecap and a round entry thimble. The hexagonal ferrels on the original did not look right with the new entry thimble so I swapped out the originals for round ones. I also found the CVA buttplate was too wide for the new stock so I had to get a slimmer one.
The rifle came out great and I have been using it for almost thirty years. The rifle fits me now and have been a great shooter. Good luck with your restock.
woodsman said:
I have been shooting black powder for over 40 years and have made every mistake that anyone can make as still have all of their fingers and eyes.
One of those mistakes is spending a LOT of time money and effort in an effort to make a cheap gun something it can never be. In the end, I have always regreted the waste of time and money on those cheap guns.
My intent was to help you and the other members of this forum avoid that expense and regret.
If that makes me a horses ass, then so be it.
I can, BTW, still be a horses ass and not resort to the contrivance of small minds, which is personal attacks and name calling
J.D.
JD, I ain't pickin' sides here, but I gotta ask ya, Why not?
The Lyman barrels are good accurate barrels. Why buy another? The Lyman locks work good. They pop caps. Why buy another? You can get a nice stock and fit the parts you already own, file off the stampings in the barrel(or not), re-finish to your taste, and have a rifle that you built the way you like for just a couple hundred $ and a bit of work. A kit will cost easily 2 or 3 times the amount.
And you could still go shootin' in the meanwhile.
This is, of course, only since he already has the parts rifle. :v
The Lyman barrels are good accurate barrels. Why buy another? The Lyman locks work good. They pop caps. Why buy another? You can get a nice stock and fit the parts you already own, file off the stampings in the barrel(or not), re-finish to your taste, and have a rifle that you built the way you like for just a couple hundred $ and a bit of work. A kit will cost easily 2 or 3 times the amount.
And you could still go shootin' in the meanwhile.
This is, of course, only since he already has the parts rifle. :v
cowpoke1955
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Woodsman,
Your project sounds very interesting. I have a .54 GPR percussion I bought 27 years ago and it's still an excellent rifle. I just completed a .54 GPR flint from a kit that is also a straight shooter. I have one long rifle, a .45 Blue Ridge flinter by Pedersoli. I just love these rifles and I too will never get rid of them either. When I was in the market for another long rifle, Pedersoli jacked up the prices. I sat back and started to listen to people like JD. Through JD, I found out that a good semi custom rifle will cost just a little more than the current Pedersolis. They'll tell you where to look. My next rifle will be one of these. The nice thing about our sport is that we take an idea from here and one from there, then form our own style. Listen to others and think. Everything here is an opion and is here to offer help. Those of us who choose traditional muzzle loading are all like family :hatsoff: . By the way, when you finish your project, please post some pics. I would love to see them :thumbsup: .
Your project sounds very interesting. I have a .54 GPR percussion I bought 27 years ago and it's still an excellent rifle. I just completed a .54 GPR flint from a kit that is also a straight shooter. I have one long rifle, a .45 Blue Ridge flinter by Pedersoli. I just love these rifles and I too will never get rid of them either. When I was in the market for another long rifle, Pedersoli jacked up the prices. I sat back and started to listen to people like JD. Through JD, I found out that a good semi custom rifle will cost just a little more than the current Pedersolis. They'll tell you where to look. My next rifle will be one of these. The nice thing about our sport is that we take an idea from here and one from there, then form our own style. Listen to others and think. Everything here is an opion and is here to offer help. Those of us who choose traditional muzzle loading are all like family :hatsoff: . By the way, when you finish your project, please post some pics. I would love to see them :thumbsup: .
Woodsman:
Good for you. Try these people:
[url] http://www.longrifles-pr.com/index.shtml[/url]
Pecatonica long rifle supply. Not sure if the copy/paste above is hyperlinked. They are great to deal with. I put one of their semi-inletted stocks on a Renegade a couple of years ago and am happy with it.
Good for you. Try these people:
[url] http://www.longrifles-pr.com/index.shtml[/url]
Pecatonica long rifle supply. Not sure if the copy/paste above is hyperlinked. They are great to deal with. I put one of their semi-inletted stocks on a Renegade a couple of years ago and am happy with it.
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Gentlemen, thank you for your replies and support for my project. This gun will be a one of a kind when I'm done and the sweat equity that I put into it will make the time that I spend hunting and target shooting with it that much more special.
Tony
Tony
Woodsman,
Before proceding with this project, I would suggest trying different stocks to find the correct drop, length of pull, and maybe a little cast off that will make using this gun more comfortable, and more enjoyable.
Few factory stocks really fit anyone. Most have too little drop, a too long length of pull and no cast off.
The easiest way I have found to determine if a stock fits properly is to close your eyes and shoulder the gun. The sights should be properly aligned when you open your eyes, but that probably will not happen. If you have to move your head or adjust your body in any way to align the sights, that stock does not fit properly.
If you are going to restock this gun, might as well do it in a way that is of real benefit to you.
J.D.
Before proceding with this project, I would suggest trying different stocks to find the correct drop, length of pull, and maybe a little cast off that will make using this gun more comfortable, and more enjoyable.
Few factory stocks really fit anyone. Most have too little drop, a too long length of pull and no cast off.
The easiest way I have found to determine if a stock fits properly is to close your eyes and shoulder the gun. The sights should be properly aligned when you open your eyes, but that probably will not happen. If you have to move your head or adjust your body in any way to align the sights, that stock does not fit properly.
If you are going to restock this gun, might as well do it in a way that is of real benefit to you.
J.D.
This talk of spending money on "cheap" rifles really guns gets me going.
"Cheap" is a very relative term.
If you are a young guy starting out with a family to take care of $3-400 can be a huge investment.
The gun is yours - do with it what you want.
If shooting the gun makes you happy - shoot it!
If carving up a new stock makes you happy carve it.
I have a Crockett and a GPR both CHEAP guns that I love to shoot.
I have museum quality contemporary guns that I love to shoot.
One thing I noticed is they all go bang when you pull the trigger.
Strange a $300 gun or $5500 gun --SAME BANG!
Strange a $300 gun or $5500 gun --SAME SMILE
Strange a $300 gun or $5500 gun --SAME SMOKE
Now that I think about it I think a full stock GPR would be kind of cool.
I don't pass judgment on what somebody shoots, what somebody drives or who they marry.
Life is too short to live by other folks standards.
Shoot what you like -Like what you shoot - Enjoy
P.S.
Post some pictures when you get her done.
"Cheap" is a very relative term.
If you are a young guy starting out with a family to take care of $3-400 can be a huge investment.
The gun is yours - do with it what you want.
If shooting the gun makes you happy - shoot it!
If carving up a new stock makes you happy carve it.
I have a Crockett and a GPR both CHEAP guns that I love to shoot.
I have museum quality contemporary guns that I love to shoot.
One thing I noticed is they all go bang when you pull the trigger.
Strange a $300 gun or $5500 gun --SAME BANG!
Strange a $300 gun or $5500 gun --SAME SMILE
Strange a $300 gun or $5500 gun --SAME SMOKE
Now that I think about it I think a full stock GPR would be kind of cool.
I don't pass judgment on what somebody shoots, what somebody drives or who they marry.
Life is too short to live by other folks standards.
Shoot what you like -Like what you shoot - Enjoy
P.S.
Post some pictures when you get her done.
jethro224 said:
I all depends on what someone is willing to settle for.
Hitting a cap placed on a brick with a hammer will make it pop, but will it make it pop in style? :winking:
GPR's are decent guns, and IMHO, probably the best value in factory guns. However, they have their flaws. One of those flaws is not enough drop in the butt, a too long of a length of pull for most people, and no cast off. That style of stock and buttplate is designed to be placed between the bicept and shoulder, as opposed to being placed in the pocket of the shoulder.
That style of stock needs at least 1/4 inch of cast off to allow the shooter to align the sights.
Another flaw is that the lock could be smoother, and in many cases, the hammer could line up better with the nipple.
The barrels are decent, but can be improved by lapping.
My only objection with spending a lot of money simply to change the appearance of any gun, no matter who made it, is that most people are not happy with the result.
I'm not above modifying any gun. I have modified every gun I have owned, to some extent, to improve funtion and accuracy. I have also refinished stocks and barrels, with varying results.
I have also spent more money than the law should allow on trying to make guns into something they can never be. And in the end, I have never been happy with the result.
A close friend owned a Dixie rifle many years ago.
He wsn't happy with the lock, so he replaced it, then the stock began to crack along the forearm and in the lock inlet. Instead of repairing the cracks, he bought another stock. Not long after, he decided the barrel was shot out. Instead of lapping the bore and cleaning up the crown, he replaced the barrel.
All of these replacements did nothing but cost him time effort and more money. They didn't improve the function or reliability of his gun one bit. Nor he didn't learn anything about tuning and repairing a lock, or how to lap a barrel, or how to repair those checks.
He sold that rifle twenty years ago, and he still looks back with regret at the time, effort and money he spent on that gun, for no good purpose.
J.D.
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Go for it, will be good experience for you. May put a bug to build a complete rifle one day. I got experience by doing just that on a rifle I bought that had a broken stock. I later got a bug to work on them and make them better shooters.
Give a man a gun and he will shoot until broken. Teach a man to fix one and he will shoot it for life. An old gunsmith told me that once and sorta hard to forget. He also was a rascal. :haha:
Give a man a gun and he will shoot until broken. Teach a man to fix one and he will shoot it for life. An old gunsmith told me that once and sorta hard to forget. He also was a rascal. :haha:
JD,
Just to make some comments about your latest post . . . Please read all the way to the end before popping a vein . . .
I all depends on what someone is willing to settle for.
Pretty elitist attitude.
Hitting a cap placed on a brick with a hammer will make it pop, but will it make it pop in style?
Again, pretty elitist attitude.
GPR's are decent guns, and IMHO, probably the best value in factory guns. However, they have their flaws. One of those flaws is not enough drop in the butt, a too long of a length of pull for most people, and no cast off. That style of stock and buttplate is designed to be placed between the bicept and shoulder, as opposed to being placed in the pocket of the shoulder.
That style of stock needs at least 1/4 inch of cast off to allow the shooter to align the sights.
Agree with your observation as the GPR probably being the best value for a production gun. If it doesn't fit "most" people for LOP, "most" people need to try different guns to find one that fits. If you do not want to shoot the gun with the buttplate in the "armpit", as it is meant to be shot, you should not be looking at a Plains or Hawken style gun. How many "production" guns have any cast off built into them? The GPR fits me fine, with or without castoff.
Another flaw is that the lock could be smoother, and in many cases, the hammer could line up better with the nipple.
Easily fixable. More people complain about the triggers than the locks (from my experience).
The barrels are decent, but can be improved by lapping.
Short of spending $300 for a barrel alone, what else can you ask for? GPR barrels (in general) are good barrels. The lapping usually needs to be done on almost ALL barrels, regardless of manufacturer. Usually done by the builder if buying a custom gun before you ever receive it. Another easy fix.
My only objection with spending a lot of money simply to change the appearance of any gun, no matter who made it, is that most people are not happy with the result.
If you do it for yourself, even if you are not happy with it, you probably wouldn't admit it, well, I wouldn't anyhow.
I'm not above modifying any gun. I have modified every gun I have owned, to some extent, to improve funtion and accuracy. I have also refinished stocks and barrels, with varying results.
I have also spent more money than the law should allow on trying to make guns into something they can never be. And in the end, I have never been happy with the result.
So, you've done it, too? And you admit it? Good for you. So have I.
A close friend owned a Dixie rifle many years ago.
He wsn't happy with the lock, so he replaced it, then the stock began to crack along the forearm and in the lock inlet. Instead of repairing the cracks, he bought another stock. Not long after, he decided the barrel was shot out. Instead of lapping the bore and cleaning up the crown, he replaced the barrel.
All of these replacements did nothing but cost him time effort and more money. They didn't improve the function or reliability of his gun one bit. Nor he didn't learn anything about tuning and repairing a lock, or how to lap a barrel, or how to repair those checks.
He sold that rifle twenty years ago, and he still looks back with regret at the time, effort and money he spent on that gun, for no good purpose.
J.D.
Sounds like your friend was his own worst enemy.
_______________________
I have done, or will eventually do, everything you are trying to prevent Woodsman from doing. Your comments are well founded, but once given, let them go. I happen to have MLs that range from garage sale finds to GPRs to custom built longrifles. The GPRs are in the group of 3 or 4 that I shoot on a regular basis. I have also pondered restocking one of them to a full stock, but, as you have said, I cannot justify the expense and required time to do so. If the stock was broken, maybe different story, but not as they come from the factory.
Woodsman,
In general, I agree with most of what JD has said, but if YOU want to make the change, GO FOR IT. It's your money, your time and your gun. You need to satisfy yourself. If you proceed with the restocking, post pics of the progress, I may yet want to do it . . .
Watch yer topknot . . . Otter
Just to make some comments about your latest post . . . Please read all the way to the end before popping a vein . . .
I all depends on what someone is willing to settle for.
Pretty elitist attitude.
Hitting a cap placed on a brick with a hammer will make it pop, but will it make it pop in style?
Again, pretty elitist attitude.
GPR's are decent guns, and IMHO, probably the best value in factory guns. However, they have their flaws. One of those flaws is not enough drop in the butt, a too long of a length of pull for most people, and no cast off. That style of stock and buttplate is designed to be placed between the bicept and shoulder, as opposed to being placed in the pocket of the shoulder.
That style of stock needs at least 1/4 inch of cast off to allow the shooter to align the sights.
Agree with your observation as the GPR probably being the best value for a production gun. If it doesn't fit "most" people for LOP, "most" people need to try different guns to find one that fits. If you do not want to shoot the gun with the buttplate in the "armpit", as it is meant to be shot, you should not be looking at a Plains or Hawken style gun. How many "production" guns have any cast off built into them? The GPR fits me fine, with or without castoff.
Another flaw is that the lock could be smoother, and in many cases, the hammer could line up better with the nipple.
Easily fixable. More people complain about the triggers than the locks (from my experience).
The barrels are decent, but can be improved by lapping.
Short of spending $300 for a barrel alone, what else can you ask for? GPR barrels (in general) are good barrels. The lapping usually needs to be done on almost ALL barrels, regardless of manufacturer. Usually done by the builder if buying a custom gun before you ever receive it. Another easy fix.
My only objection with spending a lot of money simply to change the appearance of any gun, no matter who made it, is that most people are not happy with the result.
If you do it for yourself, even if you are not happy with it, you probably wouldn't admit it, well, I wouldn't anyhow.
I'm not above modifying any gun. I have modified every gun I have owned, to some extent, to improve funtion and accuracy. I have also refinished stocks and barrels, with varying results.
I have also spent more money than the law should allow on trying to make guns into something they can never be. And in the end, I have never been happy with the result.
So, you've done it, too? And you admit it? Good for you. So have I.
A close friend owned a Dixie rifle many years ago.
He wsn't happy with the lock, so he replaced it, then the stock began to crack along the forearm and in the lock inlet. Instead of repairing the cracks, he bought another stock. Not long after, he decided the barrel was shot out. Instead of lapping the bore and cleaning up the crown, he replaced the barrel.
All of these replacements did nothing but cost him time effort and more money. They didn't improve the function or reliability of his gun one bit. Nor he didn't learn anything about tuning and repairing a lock, or how to lap a barrel, or how to repair those checks.
He sold that rifle twenty years ago, and he still looks back with regret at the time, effort and money he spent on that gun, for no good purpose.
J.D.
Sounds like your friend was his own worst enemy.
_______________________
I have done, or will eventually do, everything you are trying to prevent Woodsman from doing. Your comments are well founded, but once given, let them go. I happen to have MLs that range from garage sale finds to GPRs to custom built longrifles. The GPRs are in the group of 3 or 4 that I shoot on a regular basis. I have also pondered restocking one of them to a full stock, but, as you have said, I cannot justify the expense and required time to do so. If the stock was broken, maybe different story, but not as they come from the factory.
Woodsman,
In general, I agree with most of what JD has said, but if YOU want to make the change, GO FOR IT. It's your money, your time and your gun. You need to satisfy yourself. If you proceed with the restocking, post pics of the progress, I may yet want to do it . . .
Watch yer topknot . . . Otter
Amen Brother Peashooter! The GPR is an excellent off-the-rack rifle as off-the-rack rifles go, without a doubt. Is it a $1,000+ custom built? No, its not from any objective standpoint, but it is worth gussying up a bit, IMHO.
The fussing you will have to do to fit a new full stock is a good, and relatively inexpensive, way to get a bit of an idea of what you will be facing with a full build. In fact, fitting a new stock to a GPR will be in some (but not all) ways more difficult that putting together a GPR kit I would think.
J.D. has a point, like if you were starting with a sketchy barrel, lock, etc., from a mariginal pawn shop purchase or hand me down. You may end up with a nice looking rifle that doesn't shoot worth a heck. If that is not the case, spending $150 and some quality time to improve your rifle is not a bad use of your money or time IMHO. You aren't violating any laws, you probably aren't going to be doing it while getting drunk in a bar and most of the cussing you'll do when you cut your hand with a chisel will be drowned out by the ambulance siren so the kids won't hear it.
I built (er.. assembled) a GPR from a kit, and more than once I have thought about putting on a full stock purely for a different look, so you aren't any crazier than I am (a quorum of the voices in my head agree that I am not, so rest easy). Go for it, have fun with it and post some photos. Lots of folks with GPRs would love to see it when you are done!
:hatsoff:
