Grandpa's old gun...

[Ranchmgr]

Hi...... hoping someone might have some info or point me in the right direction. My grandfather recently passed and we found this in his gun case. No one has any idea where he got it or how long he had it.
What baffles me is how small it is. Maybe a youth flint lock??

 

[Many Klatch]

Well, it looks like it was never meant to fire, but it would go click if it was cocked and triggered. Possibly it was made by a blacksmith as a toy for a child. The original lock was removed and this was made to fit into the lock mortise. I would guess the barrel and stock are original and since it was flint the lock and stock are probably older than 1840. If I had to put a date on it I'd say that this is a Civil War era toy.

Many Klatch

 

[Ranchmgr]

Wow, that's interesting. Thank you for your input!

 

[KABAR2]

Could you give a few more photo's of the forarm and how the bands are made.... also is the top of the cock threaded for a top jaw screw? As far as it being able to fire... If the cock is set up for a top jaw and screw there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to fire....the lock is an interesting design it looks like whoever made it may not have been able to make screw threads but had some blacksmith ability...

 

[vtbuck223]

I don't see any reason why this couldn't have fired at one time....somehow it was able to hold a flint....and the rest seems too well made to be a mere toy. very interesting.

 

[suzkat]

This is the most unique rifle I've seen in awhile. Hoping to find out more about it.

 

[miqueleter]

Ranchmgr,

That lock is South East Asian; Laos, Cambodia, Viet Nam, that area. Usually mounted on a long barreled smoothbore. All very primitive. How it ended up on that little gun should make a most interesting story.

 

[Ranchmgr]

Well, my grandfather did travel all over in the merchant marines so there is no telling where he could have picked it up.
Here is some more pictures....

 

[Ranchmgr]

And some more......

 

[Ranchmgr]

And a few more.....

 

[Asher]

Is it just me or does that lock plate look like an old file? The slight taper, the tang at the end...

 

[KABAR2]

Is it just me or does that lock plate look like an old file? The slight taper, the tang at the end...

I was thinking the same thing the cock must have had some sort of wedge afair to keep the flint in place

And miqueleter nailed it as to region of the world it came from... did a quick search...
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10915315_a-vietnamese-flintlock-musket
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5292

Looks like they adopted a more European stock design from the traditional designs shown in the links....

 

[Okwaho]

Ranchmgr,

That lock is South East Asian; Laos, Cambodia, Viet Nam, that area. Usually mounted on a long barreled smoothbore. All very primitive. How it ended up on that little gun should make a most interesting story.

Given the prior owner's travels I would VERY carefully unload the barrel. This apparatus is somewhat reminiscent of 19th century English poacher entrapment guns and could even be a Viet Cong booby trap and it could still be loaded.If unloaded then it could still be a rather interesting wall hanger.BE CAREFUL :hmm: :v
Tom Patton

 

[Ranchmgr]

How would I go about unloading it?? I have plenty guns but absolutely no muzzle loading experience.

That auction site link was very interesting. My mother asked her aunt about the gun since they lived in Cambodia for a while. She said they did not bring any guns back but she did remember my grandfather and his brother buying a gun with a lot of silver on it. The one in the auction has silver bands.

 

[Many Klatch]

miqueleter, so how does that lock set off a charge? Did they tie the flint on? I don't see a screw hole for a missing top jaw. Does the lock come down on a kitchen match?

Many Klatch

 

[miqueleter]

Wondered that myself. Have seen many of these locks and nary a one had anything resembling a screw. I have come to believe that the cock jaws are made so as to provide a sort of "springy clamping action," such as illustrated here:

[/img]

 

[KABAR2]

To check and see if it is loaded take the ram rod and lay it along the barrel if it is as long as the barrel it may stop about 3/4 of an inch from the breech plug, now with the gun pointing in a safe direction slide the ramrod down inside the barrel if it goes the same length inside as the measurement outside and you have a metalic ping at the bottom it is unloaded.... if you end up with an inch or two of ramrod outside the barrel and it makes a softer thuding sound it may be loaded.... not always the case I had one that had a section of greasy long john stuffed in it....
let us know what you find.... if it is loaded we will talk more...

 

[KABAR2]

Wondered that myself. Have seen many of these locks and nary a one had anything resembling a screw. I have come to believe that the cock jaws are made so as to provide a sort of "springy clamping action," such as illustrated here:

[/img]

This lock is interesting in the fact that it is all rivited together, these native gunsmith/blacksmith's didn't have a way of making taps and dies for screws but they did know how to make a rivet.... it looks like you figured out how the flint was kept in also....

 

[Many Klatch]

So the flint is wedged in there with the leather. If it is too loose then thicker leather is used until it does work.

Well, I wouldn't want to depend on it but I guess it would be better than throwing rocks or spitting.

Many Klatch

 

[cynthialee]

So the flint is wedged in there with the leather. If it is too loose then thicker leather is used until it does work.

Well, I wouldn't want to depend on it but I guess it would be better than throwing rocks or spitting.

Many Klatch

amen!
But you know the first guy to own it was tickled pink he had a gun.