Great Plains Pistol Sight Issue??

[Hawthorn1213]

Hey Guys,

I've put about 100 rounds through my Great Plains Pistol (Lyman) and noticed the front and rear sights started working themselves out of position. When I went to knock them back into position, I have to go beyond where they originally were in order for them to stay in place.

Does anyone have any recommendations? Is it just a matter of asking Lyman for a new set of sights?

Thanks in advance!

 

[bubba.50]

Remove the sights, lay about a 9/16ths socket across the dovetails and give a light tap with a small hammer. won't take as much as you think so go slow. Tap & try, tap & try til ya get a nice tight fit. Besides being super-easy, as a bonus no one will ever be able to tell you did anything.

 

[Hawthorn1213]

I think I see what you're saying - Essentially slightly deform the dovetails making them somewhat tighter?

 

[rafterob]

Yes, there are a number of methods to do this. I punch the lips of the dovetails to the sight base. Some do not like that method because it shows.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Had the same issue with the rear sight on my GPR. I used a spring loaded centering punch to raise dimples on the underside of the sight for a tighter fit.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hey Guys,

I've put about 100 rounds through my Great Plains Pistol (Lyman) and noticed the front and rear sights started working themselves out of position. When I went to knock them back into position, I have to go beyond where they originally were in order for them to stay in place.

Does anyone have any recommendations? Is it just a matter of asking Lyman for a new set of sights?

Thanks in advance!

Bubba has good advice. If ya don't want to do that, turn the sight upside down and dimple the bottom with a center punch. The dimples are higher on the sides of the hole made and will raise the sight making it tighter.

 

[CaptainKirk]

LocTite red threadlocker will work as well.

 

[Rod Man]

Brass punch touch the dovetail lips up a bit.

RM

 

[Zonie]

LocTite red threadlocker will work as well.

Not that I am in favor of using LocTite for sights but if someone decides to use it they need to know how it works.

LocTite doesn't harden when it contacts fresh air. It doesn't harden when it is exposed to humidity.
It only hardens when it is in contact with active metals like iron or steel or aluminum or copper and freshly cut stainless steel which has free ions exposed to it.
It does not work well on steel with bluing, aluminum with anodizing or passivated stainless steel unless the part is first coated with LocTite T Primer.

The surfaces must be in tight contact with each other for the threadlocker to harden.

If I was going to use LocTite threadlocker it would be the Blue kind. The Blue LocTite is made for parts that may someday need to be removed. The Red LocTite threadlocker is made for permanent assemblies. That's not to say Red LocTite can't be disassembled but to do that, the parts need to be heated to over 400°F to soften it.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Not that I am in favor of using LocTite for sights but if someone decides to use it they need to know how it works.

LocTite doesn't harden when it contacts fresh air. It doesn't harden when it is exposed to humidity.
It only hardens when it is in contact with active metals like iron or steel or aluminum or copper and freshly cut stainless steel which has free ions exposed to it.
It does not work well on steel with bluing, aluminum with anodizing or passivated stainless steel unless the part is first coated with LocTite T Primer.

The surfaces must be in tight contact with each other for the threadlocker to harden.

If I was going to use LocTite threadlocker it would be the Blue kind. The Blue LocTite is made for parts that may someday need to be removed. The Red LocTite threadlocker is made for permanent assemblies. That's not to say Red LocTite can't be disassembled but to do that, the parts need to be heated to over 400°F to soften it.

I stand corrected. To clarify, one would want no bluing on the bottom of the sight or the center section of the dovetail slot...easily removed with vinegar on a Q-tip. I'm very familiar with LocTite having used it in Aviation the last 40 years, but you raised a very valid point, Zonie, including the part where it needs to be under pressure (C-clamp) which I neglected to mention as well. I would normally agree on the blue Loctite but I have experienced issues with screws and such working loose by heat transfer from the barrel with the blue version.
That being said, the better option is to peen the dovetail slot as was mentioned, but some folks are reluctant to do things like that. Again, thanks for calling it to my attention.

 

[brewer12345]

Another option is to put a little piece of aluminum foil under the sight as a shim.

 

[andy52]

Sights are cheap, barrels aren't, if going to wack on something peen the sight base when it's off the gun to expand it and try it again.

 

[SomeDude]

Not that I am in favor of using LocTite for sights but if someone decides to use it they need to know how it works.

LocTite doesn't harden when it contacts fresh air. It doesn't harden when it is exposed to humidity.
It only hardens when it is in contact with active metals like iron or steel or aluminum or copper and freshly cut stainless steel which has free ions exposed to it.
It does not work well on steel with bluing, aluminum with anodizing or passivated stainless steel unless the part is first coated with LocTite T Primer.

The surfaces must be in tight contact with each other for the threadlocker to harden.

If I was going to use LocTite threadlocker it would be the Blue kind. The Blue LocTite is made for parts that may someday need to be removed. The Red LocTite threadlocker is made for permanent assemblies. That's not to say Red LocTite can't be disassembled but to do that, the parts need to be heated to over 400°F to soften it.

I used red Loctite on mine before thinking about the fact I'd need heat to remove them if I ever needed to. Now I'm worried that if I ever do need to, heating them will ruin the temper on the barrel.

 

[Zonie]

You will not ruin the temper of the barrel steel because if your barrel is like almost all barrels used for muzzleloading guns, it was made out of low carbon steel.
Low carbon steel cannot be hardened so it is not "tempered".
Even if it was tempered steel, the 400°F temperature I mentioned isn't hot enough to change the temper. Think of it this way, a high carbon steel spring is tempered at around 800°F. The temperature of molten lead. In order to damage the temper of a spring it must be heated to a temperature higher than that.

To clarify, if a piece of steel has been hardened and tempered at one temperature, heating the steel up to that temperature a number of times will not change anything. Heating it higher than the temper temperature will change the hardness and strength of the steel.

 

[Hawthorn1213]

Wow! I can't believe all of the great responses! Thank you so much.

Update: I took a spring loaded punch and put a few dimples on the bottom of the front and rear sights and that definitely helped keep them in place.

Next Issue: I'm not sure if the sights were like this or I ended up doing it by putting the dimples in them, but both the front and rear sights are now sitting at an angle (as opposed to perpendicular to the barrel.) If you're looking down the sights both are at about -10° (assuming top is 0°)

 

[SomeDude]

Wow! I can't believe all of the great responses! Thank you so much.

Update: I took a spring loaded punch and put a few dimples on the bottom of the front and rear sights and that definitely helped keep them in place.

Next Issue: I'm not sure if the sights were like this or I ended up doing it by putting the dimples in them, but both the front and rear sights are now sitting at an angle (as opposed to perpendicular to the barrel.) If you're looking down the sights both are at about -10° (assuming top is 0°)

Yeah because the base of the dovetail and the base of the sight must remain square to maintain that 0 degree to the barrel. Adding the dimple means you've raised one end of the sight's base higher than the other.

 

[Hawthorn1213]

It's not so much that the bur from the dimple is causing the sights to be high on one side, but the sights themselves are not square.

haha I'm kind of at the point where I might just pick up new sights.

Anyone have any recommendations? Does the pistol accept the Great Plain Rifle sights?

 

[HiDesertHunter]

Sights are cheap, barrels aren't, if going to wack on something peen the sight base when it's off the gun to expand it and try it again.

I agree - I have NEVER done anything to barrel dovetails to snug up sight.

Dimpling the underside of the SIGHT dovetail (properly called 'staking') is the preferred method and is best done with three evenly spaced 'divots' across the base of the dovetail to ensure proper fit without the 'angle' issue.

If you do NOT want to 'stake' the sight one way to tighten it up is to fine some thin copper shim stock such as .010 thickness . Cut a small square a bit smaller than the dovetail in the barrel and lay it in the BARREL dovetail, add a drop of oil, and start the sight in by hand. When started you can then start tapping the sight with a brass drift, piece of aluminum rod etc. something to protect the sight. If the sight starts and is moving with moderate 'taps' on the punch keep going until it is centered. Make sure the copper shim did not move with the sight and extend out the other side. If so try again and if so keep a finger on the shim until you have started it in my hand. It can be frustrating but it will work! You can also slightly 'tap' the shim with a flat hammer on a flat steel surface to make it a bit 'thinner' if necessary.

If you don't want to go through all this another way to deal with it is to use a drop of the 'thick' Superglue in the dovetail. You need to move quickly to center the sight but if it was loose to begin with it should go quickly.

Wipe any excess off and it will not move until you tap it out! The downside to using Superglue is if you do take the sight out the superglue will leave a thin, hard deposit in the dovetail but it can be removed by carefully scraping or chipping it with a small, stiff knife blade.

 

[andy52]

It's not so much that the bur from the dimple is causing the sights to be high on one side, but the sights themselves are not square.

haha I'm kind of at the point where I might just pick up new sights.

Anyone have any recommendations? Does the pistol accept the Great Plain Rifle sights?

Give me your mailing address and I'll send you a spare. I have a set from a GPR build that I didn't use.

 

[Zonie]

If anyone wants to send mailing addresses or other personal information, PLEASE do not post it on the web in a thread like this.

Always use the PM or private message system. No one can read a PM unless they are included in it.