Great Plains Rifle rate of twist

[StanD]

Hi
Did Lyman ever make a Great Plains Rifle with a 1 in 48 rate of twist? I bought one from my brothers widow that he made from a kit in 1984 and by running a brush down it and attempting to measure the turns I keep coming up with something in the neighborhood of 1 in 48 instead of 1 in 60. I know this isn’t an accurate method but it’s all I have. Is there a better way to determine this? Thanks
Stan

 

[Shooey]

They make one now and I believe it is called the Great Plains Hunter. I may be wrong.

Not sure if they made one in 1984, I'm sure someone else will chime in.

Maybe the rifle has a replacement barrel?

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Great Plains Hunter is 1:32 twist for conicals and them skirted thingies!

Put two patches on a jag so they are tight and push it home. Mark the rod, and slowly pull it out to the edge of the muzzle. A tight patch makes it fairly accurate if you check the rotation of the mark.

 

[StanD]

Thanks Rusty, I’ll give that a try and see if I get a better reading. No Shooey it’s the original barrel. If there had been another barrel it would have still been there when I inventoried his guns for his wife. He never got rid of anything. He did have an extra 36 cal. barrel for his TC Hawkins 50. He also had a Green River in 50 cal. But he eventually went to an inline and quit shooting the side locks. Thank you for the answers.
Stan

 

[Rusty_Nail]

when you check the twist, with a 32" barrel, 1:60 should be right just past half a turn.

If it is a Hunter barrel, the 1:32 will be a full turn.

 

[StanD]

Rusty, using a range rod with a T handle I got a half turn in 23 ¼ inches. That’s as close as I could come. So looking in an old Lyman book form 1992 there is an add in the back that states the following:
Great Plains Rifle 50cal 1 in 60 54cal 1 in 48 Barrel Length 32 in
Trade Rifle 50cal 1 in 60 54cal 1 in 48 Barrel Length 28 in
Plains Pistol 50 cal 1 in 30 54 cal 1 in 30 Barrel length 9 in
I guess that answers my question. All later publications reference 1 in 60 for the Great Plains Rifle for both 50 and 54 cal. I wonder what year Lyman switched and began making all GPR in 1 in 60 regardless of cal. This was a surprise to me, I was hoping for a good 54 cal. round ball shooter. I have a TC Hawkins 54 with 1in 48 that doesn’t do too bad with round balls but I was looking for something better. I also bought his Green River but it’s in 50cal. I don’t know what the twist is in it but I remember he bought it specifically for round balls
Thanks for your time.
Stan

 

[bpd303]

I'm not Rusty but a half turn in 23 1/4 inches would be 1:48 or 1:46.5 to be exact (margin of error). It should shoot round balls just fine with moderate loads.

 

[StanD]

This is one of two rifles that my brother built from a kit so the sentimental value exceeds the actual value of the rifle. He did a nice job on both rifles and I’m happy to have them whether or not I ever use them for hunting. I would probably use my old TC Hawkins anyway as I’m comfortable with it. I had thought that all Great Plains Rifles were 1 in 60 so this was a bit of a surprise to me. I wonder if others have bought older 54cal Lyman Great Plains Rifles on the used market thinking they were 1 in 60 when in fact they were one in 48.

 

[longcruise]

Lets see if I can muddle this up even more! :wink:

The 1/48 lyman barrel in 28" is for the Lyman Trade rifle. If yours is a Great Plains with 32", then it is not that specific barrel. I don't think they ever made a 32" 1/48 barrel.

I think you are not getting accurate measurements. Follow the instructions about using a double patch or tight patch on a jag and push to the bottom. Make the mark on the rod and the barrel. Before you pull it out, screw the rod onto the jag since they often unscrew themselves going in as the rifling turns them. Once it is turned tight, draw it out carefully and measure the length of the rod that you are able to take out. It will need a half way mark on the barrel to get an accurate measure since anything faster than 1/32 will be somewhere less than a full turn. If you have a handle on the rod of the type that will rotate, don't trust it to function as intended.

I built my first great plains kit in about '82 and the kit was somewhat older than that. How much older I'm not certain. It was supposed to have a 1/66 twist.

If I can think of any additional ways to muddle this I will! :redface:

 

[54ball]

Before the Great Plains Rifle they had the Plains Rifle in 1984.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Stanley,

I agree with the others that if the barrel is not 32", it is not a GPR barrel. Got any pics to show?

 

[StanD]

Ok, the trick is to determine when the rod has made a half turn. I lined up one end of the T handle with one of the flats, pulled the rod out till the other end of the T handle lined up with the same flat, measured the length and got 24 ¼ in. this time Then as a check I marked the rod at 30 in., lined it up with a flat and gently shoved it in to the 30 inch mark and the end of the T handle was considerably past the starting point. It’s a 1 in 48. The barrel is 32 inches long and is stamped “ Great Plains Rifle 54 ” I took a couple of pictures but I have no idea how get them on here.
Stan

 

[Zonie]

To add some fuel to the fire, I'm looking at a 1987 Dixie Gunworks catalog.

It shows a Lyman Great Plains Rifle and the description says:

"Lyman has broken the ice towards offering an authentically styled copy of the half-stock plains rifle at a reasonable price. Prior to the introduction of this Italian made reproduction, to obtain "Hawken" styling this authentic required either building or purchasing a hand crafted copy. Lyman's percussion rifle sports a 32 inch .50 caliber 15/16 inch across the flats barrel with 6 lands and grooves having a one turn in 66 inch rate of twist. Land to land measurement is .503 and we recommend using a .490 round ball. Overall length of rifle is 50" and weighs 9 lbs, This rifle is well put together and features a European walnut stock and all steel furniture. All metal surfaces sport a rich blue finish. Shipping weight 13 pounds.
Price- Finished.......$235.00" (p 35)

The verbiage about breaking the ice indicates this is the first "Great Plains Rifle" Lyman offered for sale so apparently if there were 1:48 twist Great Plains Rifles, they must have been made after 1987.

 

[StanD]

Zonie
I was wrong about the purchase date that I quoted. I thought it was 1984 but I found the receipt. He bought it from Gander Mountain , August 12 1986 for $169.99 for the kit. The add I quoted above came out of a Lyman Black Powder Handbook from 1992 that states that the 54 cal. had a 1 in 48. I have a 1992 Dixie catalog that has the same add you quoted word for word but it does not mention the 54 cal. The 1992 Lyman add agrees with the 1 in 60 for the 50 cal. but not the 54 cal. I know the newer 54 Great Plains Rifles are 1 in 60. I wonder what other years they had a 1 in 48. I got rid of most of my old literature when I moved and had to downsize. Maybe someone else has information they could add. It really isn’t that important I guess, it is what it is. It’s just that I have never heard of a Great Plains Rifle with 1 in 48 and now I’m curious. Thanks for the input.
Stan

 

[necchi]

Are you sure it's a "Great Plains Rifle"?

As 54ball stated above they made the "Plains Rifle" before the GPR and they are two different guns.
The "Plains" has a rather large patch box, the GPR has none.

 

[StanD]

Hi necchi
Yes I’m sure it’s a Great Plains Rifle. The barrel is stamped “GREAT PLAINS RIFLE” and it looks just like the picture in a 2005 Lyman catalog as well as my 1992 Lyman Black Powder Handbook. There is no patch box on this rifle. All of the publications I have ever seen listed the GPR as having a 1 in 60 for both the 50 and 54 cal. ”¦”¦”¦.except for one little 1 inch by 3 inch bit of text at the bottom of a full page picture add from a 1992 Lyman book which lists the Great Plains Rifle in 50 cal. as having a 1 in 60 and the 54 cal. as having 1 in 48. This is the only place I have ever seen that references the GPR 54 cal. having a 1 in 48. I’ve measured that bore a number of times and keep coming up with somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 48. It’s definitely not an exact measurement and I thought maybe someone here might have a better method than the one I was using. Tightening a T handle on the rod I can pretty well line up the T with the center of a flat pull it back out till the other end of the T lines up with the same flat then measure the length on the rod. It’s not exact by any means but it’s close. My brother never threw anything out and when I was inventorying his firearms for his wife I kept all the paperwork. He bought this in the fall of 86. He even kept the box it came in. It was definitely manufactured with one in 48 in 1986 and was listed as one in 48 in 1992 so I wonder how many years it was like this or if Lyman just bounced back and forth between twists of 48 and 60 over the years. Like I said before, it doesn’t matter really but I’m curious. I wonder how many people have bought a used Great Plains Rifle thinking they were getting a 1 in 60 twist when in fact it was 1 in 48. Thank you
Stan

 

[necchi]

Thank you,
That is interesting indeed.
Like you I have never heard of the GPR in 1-48, but you have certainly proven that said rifle does exist.

 

[Rifleman1776]

An easy way if the rod is wood is to just stick a small pin in the rod at the muzzle. When the pin rotates a half turn take yer measurement.
If the rod is steel, or whatever, put some masking tape around the rod at the muzzle and mark with a tiny spot. When that spot make a half rotation, take yer measurement.

 

[StanD]

Hi Rifleman
Ok I tried it once more just to see if I could get a better measurement. I clamped a brass range rod to my work bench and laid a drafting T square tight along side. Using the edge of the T square as a guide I struck a line the length of the rod. I then marked both sides of the end of the barrel using small square across the flats. I started the patched rod into the barrel and marked it when the line on the rod and the line on the barrel came into alignment. I gently pushed the rod into the barrel until the opposite line on the barrel matched the line on the rod and measured the distance between the two marks at 23 3/4 in. This is probably the most accurate measurement I’ve gotten but with this primitive a method it’s as close as I can come. Any it’s certainly not 1 in 60. Thanks for your input.
Stan

 

[StanD]

Well, I’m going to put this thread to bed once and for all and I promise not to bring it up again. My curiosity wouldn’t let me rest so I wrote to Lyman concerning The Great Plains Rifle rate of twist and received a very timely answer which I have included herein. I also asked about the Plains Rifle which I had never heard of until 54 Ball and necchi referenced it. For those contemplating the purchase of a used Great Plains Rifle looking for a slow twist for round balls they may want to consider the year of manufacture prior to purchase; however, I believe a 1 in 48 will more than likely shoot a round ball much tighter than I will ever be able to hold it so, for me at least, the difference is inconsequential.
Stan
From Lyman
A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #353813 with the following response:
As far as we know, all 54 caliber Great Plains made between their introduction in 1980 and 1990, had 1-48" twist. There was actually a miscommunication between ourselves and Italy regarding the twist for the 54 which lead to some incorrect listings of the twist rate.
The Plains rifle, which was made prior to the Great Plains, had a 1-48" twist for all calibers. The Plains rifle had a 28" barrel with double triggers and brass furniture and patch box. It looked something like our current Trade rifle, but with a patch box and double triggers.
We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.