Greek Pistol

[rickystl]

Hello again. Thought I would post pics of a new family member for comment and discussion.

Gun: Greek/Montenegrin, celina or ledenica pistol. Probably made in Shkodra or Boka, late 18th or early 19th Century. Likely made for the Montenegrin market.
Lock: Typical Balkan/Greek/Southern Albanian miquelet lock, with light engraving. Tiny makers mark which I can't make out.
Stock: Solid, one piece silver. Would have been made by a provincial silversmith. ( Imagine how long this would have taken to accomplish). Barrel band the same.
Barrel: Likely Italian made. 13 1/2" long, octagon for the first 3-4" fading to round. About .65 caliber. Very faded marks at the breech which I don't believe traceable.
Anyway, here's a bunch of photos. Hope y'all enjoy. Rick. :thumbsup:

 

[Rev_William]

This awesome ... just have a few questions. 1 how do you keep finding these things and 2 do you have a key to ft knox lol

 

[wulf]

You have to know where to look and a credit card
to Ft.Knox will solve that problem...I am amazed
by the high quality of Ricky's finds and even
further impressed by his sharing...Thanks Ricky.
Wulf

 

[Claude Mathis]

One small pan, one giant hole! :wink:

 

[BillinOregon]

Simply mindboggling. The value just in the silver would be impressive enough. Amazing, Rick!

:applause:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

That is amazing. Beautiful! :thumbsup:

 

[asbrown]

long narrow deep walled pans are good at directing flash, and with a hole that big I bet it lights off every time.
Nice gun Rick. Is that really silver or what?

 

[AWsaddles]

And here I thought nonslip grip was a relatively new concept :wink: Nice gun

 

[rickystl]

Hi Claude. Every original piece I've owned has a larger vent hole (that's not just been burned out)than we use on our guns today. I've noticed this even on European and American made arms - but especially on Mid-Eastern arms.
I've often wondered if the idea was to load the barrel, and let a small portion of the barrel load weep over into the pan? This thought came to me after viewing a couple samples of period black powder. It looks very different than what we use today. Much smaller grains - smaller than even 4F. It looks like the consistency of cake flour. :hmm:
When I have a liner installed in an original barrel, I re-drill the same vent hole with a smaller 1/16" bit. I can always enlarge it.
But, yes, it's curious the larger vent hole on so many originals. Rick.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Andy - and Bill -

The silver stock is generally called Niello (There are a couple different spellings). It is a low-grade silver consisting of copper, silver, and lead sulfides. It was very popular during the 17th and 18th Centuries for use in decorating, including firearms. Sort of like what we call German silver today.
Thanks again for all the kind comments. Rick. :thumbsup:

 

[rickystl]

Hi ALW. :haha: I did grip the pistol with a leather glove on. It would be difficult to slip out of the hand. :haha: Rick.

 

[rickystl]

Woops......I meant 18th and 19th Centuries. Getting old. :youcrazy: Rick.

 

[Number19]

There doesn't appear to be much, if any, any wear on the face of the frizzen and the flash pan seems to be clean of powder stain. Remarkable condition.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Number19. Yes, the gun is in overall nice condition. The lock internals are clean and work well. However, the inside of the bore is a different story. I ran a patch soaked with Hoppe's 9 Plus down the barrel one time. Here is what came out. :shake: Will take more serious cleaning. But you can only do so much. Thanks, Rick.

 

[asbrown]

The lack of wear on the frizzen is most likely due to what appears to be a shoe welded to the frizzen face. Whether it was done to cover a worn out or a poor sparking original frizzen is for someone else to decide. :idunno:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Andy. You can't really tell by the photos, but the grooved striker plate is actually dovetailed on the frizzen. This allowed replacement without requiring a new frizzen. Some are dovetailed, where others have a small set screw in front of the frizzen. This was also popular with Spanish arms.
Rick. :thumbsup:

 

[wulf]

Hi Ricky..I noticed three holes on the underside
of the frizzen where it closes on the pan..do you
know of any reason for this???

 

[rickystl]

Hi Wulf. Yes, you noticed that. I have no idea why the three holes. I've never seen this on any other lock. But I can tell they were done intentionally. But have no idea why. :idunno: Maybe someone else here can speculate? Rick.

 

[asbrown]

Thanks for the reminder Rick. I'd heard of this before but at the time it didn't cross my mind.

Could the holes be an attempt to create more room in the pan? That pan looks awfully shallow and narrow. If the gun was slow to ignite the owner may have thought it was due to the small amount of powder he could get in the pan. I can see the owner putting a mound of powder in the pan and not being able to close it. The holes may have been a homemade attempt at a solution.
:idunno:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Andy. The pan design on these Mid-East type guns is all over the place. But many I have seen or own have this long, narrow configuration with the vent hole at the bottom edge of the pan. Maybe the thinking was something like burning a fuse? Hard to know. Of course we now know that positioning the vent hole just above the bottom of the pan offers optimum ignition. Also, it is harder to prime a narrow pan. And my experience shooting these guns does confirm a slight delay having the vent hole mounted low.
As for the three holes, I just don't know. :idunno:
What is really hard to prime are the Japanese matchlocks with the tiny round pans. You almost have to pinch the priming powder with your fingers to get it in the pan.
Here are some photos: First is an Algerian lock which shows the long, narrow pan design. Second is a Turkish lock with a more conventional pan we usually see. And a tiny round pan on an original Japanese matchlock.
Maybe pan design evolved with the rest of gun making? It's fun to speculate anyway. :hatsoff: