Green mountain LRH barrel help

[JQuigley]

Once dialed in it was consistently grouping under 2” at 100 yards and easily hitting 12” steel at 300 (with a steady rest, good light and no wind). I found the 40:1 alloy was a major contributor to accuracy (my theory was it made for a more consistent square bullet base, but I would start with pure lead for a baseline), along with getting it sized just right so loading required little more that ramrod weight. Don’t know what to tell you about paper/onion skin, you will have to experiment with what you can get if you go that route. I’ve got a lifetime supply (hopefully) of vintage 100% cotton 9 pound onion skin, something that hasn’t been made in years. You are also going to need a very good (repeatable) sight setup.

I was just about to ask about the paper. Thank you. I have a peep sight on order for it currently. Debated going the scope route but it’d be more to get it drilled and tapped than it’s worth to me.

 

[SDSmlf]

Look at the Lee Shavers mid range sight for the rear. For a front sight, I like the Lyman globe style with the Shavers inserts.

 

[JQuigley]

Look at the Lee Shavers mid range sight for the rear. For a front sight, I like the Lyman globe style with the Shavers inserts.

I’ve got his front sight on a sharps and I really like it. Any idea what rear id need for a hawken? Most of the ones I’ve seen are for flat tangs not the curved hawken style tangs

 

[SDSmlf]

I’ve got his front sight on a sharps and I really like it. Any idea what rear id need for a hawken? Most of the ones I’ve seen are for flat tangs not the curved hawken style tangs

Call Lee Shavers and ask him for suggestions. +1 (417) 682-3330.

 

[JQuigley]

Call Lee Shavers and ask him for suggestions. +1 (417) 682-3330.

Thank you

 

[Rebel bull]

i had one on my renagade and sent it down the road because i couldn't get a cheek weld when using a scope (i can't see anymore) but I was using the federal BORE locks all lead and they worked great!

 

[JQuigley]

i had one on my renagade and sent it down the road because i couldn't get a cheek weld when using a scope (i can't see anymore) but I was using the federal BORE locks all lead and they worked great!

I was looking at them myself. Nasty lookin things. Haven’t seen anything about them at longer ranges just under 100 so I’m curious about how they perform when stretched out. They’re a bit light which might be an issue but I imagine the BC of them is amazing. They’re look awfully aerodynamic

 

[nkbj]

I was just about to ask about the paper. Thank you. I have a peep sight on order for it currently. Debated going the scope route but it’d be more to get it drilled and tapped than it’s worth to me.

With my eyes going south I've considered epoxying a scope mount rail on top. For the 28" twist x .52 bore 38" long barrel I just might do that. Yeah, but then I'd have to go find some prairie dogs.

 

[JQuigley]

With my eyes going south I've considered epoxying a scope mount rail on top. For the 28" twist x .52 bore 38" long barrel I just might do that. Yeah, but then I'd have to go find some prairie dogs.

Must be some big prairie dogs for a .52

 

[sportster73hp]

Must be some big prairie dogs for a .52

Use what you have. My father used a 7mm rem mag for woodchucks. Also whitetail .

 

[Relic shooter]

RATES OF TWIST TYPICALLY USED BY THE OLD MASTERS
After 60+ years of collecting & shooting mostly big bore original British & European flint, percussion & cartridge era firearms.
Barrels on the major of those rifled 'patched round ball' firearms produce match grade accuracy have had an approximate rate-of-twist equal to one turn in length of the barrel.
It's been my experience that vintage faster twist barrels designed for a PRB with deeper rifling produced superb match grade long range accuracy with lighter powder charges.


The 'rate of twist' on firearms that were designed to shoot projectiles is generally approximately twice as fast as seen on a PRB barrel.

RIFLING DEPTH, MAIN VARIANCE BETWEEN ORIGINAL VINTAGE RIFLING & MASS PRODUCTION BARRELS

Cut rifling depth on the majority of original PRB barrels average between .014-.020 deep & rifling, this depth along with a lubed patch of the correct thickness provides excellent accuracy with minimal fouling.
Rifling depth on barrels designed to shoot projectiles average .008-.010 deep.

Most 'modern' mass produced barrels are broach-cut rifled, these barrels usually have much shallower depth rifling to speed production.
The majority of today's barrels are also cut with a much slower rate of twist to reduce blowby/shredded patches & need
for a tighter fitting lubed PRB, especially if shooter is using heavy powder charges.

We're fortunate to still have a few custom barrel makers who still produce deeper rifled barrels with tapers to lighten & replicate what we find on early original firearms.
Most modern replica muzzleloading firearms can be excellent performers but do require a tighter lubed PRB combo to obtain best accuracy.

Photos below show examples of rifling depth & rate of twist variances.
-left bore photo is a .45 cal. Spanish mfg pistol with .006 deep & slow twist rifling.
-Two photos on right are typical of an original .70 cal. Jaeger with .018 deep rifling & rate of twist =1 turn in 32".

 

[flatcreek]

What is an LRH barrel? Sorry but these acronyms drive me nuts.

 

[longcruise]

Long Range Hunter

 

[flatcreek]

Long Range Hunter

Thanks

 

[Bad Karma]

I was considering the 500 mold for that reason. I imagine it’s decently accurate? I don’t suppose you’d be here talking about it if it wasn’t

IdahoRon used this bullet over 80 grains of Pyrodex to take a nice 6X bull at just under 300 yards.

I was just about to ask about the paper. Thank you. I have a peep sight on order for it currently. Debated going the scope route but it’d be more to get it drilled and tapped than it’s worth to me.

Buffalo Arms Company has 9# paper. I don’t know how much is cotton rag paper but I’m not convinced it’s completely necessary. I have seen 9# cotton rag paper for sale on EBay of all places. They were very proud of their paper.

 

[Bad Karma]

I have considerable knowledge with elk hunting, Shooting conicals, and hunting with peep sights. If you look up threads I have made it will give you a start.
This is one of my Renegade's I hunt with. It has a Lyman 57 SML peep and a Lyman 17AML globe with Lee Shavers inserts. I have taken a lot of game at 50 yards. The peep sight has never impaired me. The great thing about the peep sight and globe is your eye naturally centers the rings. at low light and close range they are very easy to shoot in my opinion. If sighted in with a range finder you can set the sight for the shot.

In this picture you can see on the scale on the side that I have white lines. These are in 50 yard increments. This is an old picture, My scale now goes to 300 yards.

In this picture you can see the push button. By pushing it you can adjust the sight to the yardage you wish to shoot at, or in this picture you can take it off and put it in your pocket to protect it if you are on an ATV, Horse, Or climbing in an area that might make you think twice about safety.

The Lee Shavers inserts

Of all the factory bullets the No Excuse is probably the best I have tested.
This picture is of two Hornady 410 gr flat nose bullets. They were discontinued in about 2007 or 2008. The bullet that they stuck with is a hollow point. As you can see the flat point is turned inside out. It over expanded to the point of reducing penetration. The hollow point is garbage in my opinion, but they are accurate.

This is what I use. It is the Lee 500 S&W bullet. It weighs 458 grains and is slightly hardened to between 6 and 7 BHN hardness.

I shot this bull with that bullet.

The bull was very close to private property. I had to put him down where he stood or risk him going on to private land, and possibly losing him. I held for a high shoulder shot. If you read about my shooting, that is a shot I take often. But I don't recommend unless you are shooting bullets that are hardened like mine, and you know the animals anatomy extremely well. The bullet was 458 grains to start and 454 grains when I found it under the skin on the off side.

The 460 gr No excuse is still going to be a soft lead. I wouldn't go specifically for a shoulder shot. But they are good bullets and I would trust them. I would try 80 grains of Pyrodex P or 64.5 actual grains with a 54 cal over powder wad. Yes a 54 cal. The 54 cal makes a better seal. The 64.5 actual grains is important. Not everyone measures volume the same. That weight of powder is going to give you about 1310 fps. Some might think this is not enough. I can tell you for a fact, this is enough to take any animal in the lower 48.
The recoil is more than a PRB but it is not bad in my mind. I like Pyrodex P because the granules are smaller and they filter under the nipple easier when you tap on the stock.

Someone tried to make it sound like the bullets were falling out of the sky almost vertically, and they don't hit straight on. All projectiles are falling. No projectile defies gravity, even 17 cal bullets going 4000 feet per second is falling. Conicals DO hit straight on, and I can prove that with splatters on steel targets. In this picture you can see the splatters are in a circle not just splattering down. This target was shot at 500 yards with my muzzleloader. That is actually a 3 shot group at 500 yards with my muzzleloader.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Hello,
I just got in a GM LRH barrel for my 50 hawken and I’m looking for some help with loads. I got it specifically for target shooting a little further out than PRBs can go. That being said I’m not concerned with having enough “stopping power” at range. Just trying to hit a target(I say this because I don’t want the people thinking I’m hunting with these loads getting butthurt about them being cruel against animals). The furthest I’ll probably ever be able to shoot this thing is around 500 yards and I know that’s asking a lot but I’d still like to try. It’s a 1:28 twist, would’ve liked a 1:24 at least but we’ll make do. I’ve heard good things about the hornady Great Plains under 200 but I wonder about the accuracy further out. I don’t want to use the FORBIDDEN sabots and what have ya I’d like to stick to lead one but I guess I could swayed. I was looking at the “noexcuses” bullets but I’m trying to get all the info I can beforehand. I’m not sure what weight or length of bullet would be optimal for this twist but I’m sure someone here can help. I know the exact diameters and such will take experimentation but again just trying to save myself some time. I don’t want to buy $200 worth of bullets I’ll never shoot again. Thanks! Anyway, I’m open to advice and suggestions.

It has been said and yes I'm using the lee 500S&W bullet paper paper patched and sized to .501
They are Snug going down. If the barrel is stainless you will want to shoot it no lube. If it is a blued barrel. Get some chapstick and put some on the paper just before you load.

You are also saying this is for target not hunting. Like has been said yes I shot a 6 point bull at 248 yards and dropped him in his tracks with a high shoulder shot. I have shot the Lee 500S&W bullet out to 300. If I were you I would go with a smooth side paper patch bullet. Like this one.

https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=50-440P

That bullet says 440 but with soft lead it's going to weigh more. I would get the body diameter at 495 then add .006 for paper and you are at .501 if you have the ability to run them through a sizer to iron on the patch even better.
I'm adding pictures of my 45 with Lee Shavers mid range sights. The Lee Shavers Ferriss adjustable globe front sight with Lee Shavers BPCR inserts. If you want to get to 500 or farther you will need those sights.
I also have a Hadley eye cup. That is a must. I show a picture on the bench and my target. The group was shot at 500 yards.

I also added some pictures of the "cleanout" screw hole. I had two with a sliver from the drilling and tapping process. You can see the flake in the first picture. I used a dremel tool bit to remove the sliver. I only twisted it with fingers not in the tool.
Your 50 should be a ton of fun. Mine are.

 

[JQuigley]

It has been said and yes I'm using the lee 500S&W bullet paper paper patched and sized to .501
They are Snug going down. If the barrel is stainless you will want to shoot it no lube. If it is a blued barrel. Get some chapstick and put some on the paper just before you load.

You are also saying this is for target not hunting. Like has been said yes I shot a 6 point bull at 248 yards and dropped him in his tracks with a high shoulder shot. I have shot the Lee 500S&W bullet out to 300. If I were you I would go with a smooth side paper patch bullet. Like this one.

https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=50-440P

That bullet says 440 but with soft lead it's going to weigh more. I would get the body diameter at 495 then add .006 for paper and you are at .501 if you have the ability to run them through a sizer to iron on the patch even better.
I'm adding pictures of my 45 with Lee Shavers mid range sights. The Lee Shavers Ferriss adjustable globe front sight with Lee Shavers BPCR inserts. If you want to get to 500 or farther you will need those sights.
I also have a Hadley eye cup. That is a must. I show a picture on the bench and my target. The group was shot at 500 yards.

I also added some pictures of the "cleanout" screw hole. I had two with a sliver from the drilling and tapping process. You can see the flake in the first picture. I used a dremel tool bit to remove the sliver. I only twisted it with fingers not in the tool.
Your 50 should be a ton of fun. Mine are.

Wonderful! Thank you very much sir! I appreciate your time!