Green River Rifle Hawken

[bodiebill]

I have a Green River Rifle .54 cal Hawken that I purchased as kit from GRR of Roosevelt Utah in the mid 1970's. An extremely accurate rifle with their renowned barrels.
My problem is with the trigger mechanism. When I cock the hammer it will not remain back in the cocked position. I must perform a routine of first pulling back on the rear (curved) trigger,so that I can cock it for loading the cap and firing.
The front trigger is also very light and releases the hammer with very little pressure---too light for field use.
I presume the rear trigger is the "set trigger" and the front is the "release trigger".

There is also a set screw between the triggers.
Would some one give me the complete instructions of proper loading and cocking. And how I might adjust the trigger for a heavier pull.

Have been reluctant to remove the trigger mechanism.
Thanks for you help.

 

[rafterob]

Remove the trigger mechanism, you won't hurt anything. It could be the trip bar for the set trigger sits too high and won't allow the sear to fully seat on the tumbler. I had that issue with a double set trigger on my mountain rifle and had to file down the trip bar a little. It is best to try to get it to someone who can look at it and see, if you can't figure it out yourself. There could be an issue with the fly on the tumbler, but I would guess its the first issue. You do not need to set the trigger on these for Field use, you can use only the front trigger. Some Double set triggers are notorious for a hard pull when unset though.

 

[Rogue River]

Try backing out the screw between the triggers. The more the screw is screwed in the lighter the trigger pull. If you set the back trigger you can release the front trigger by just tightening the screw. I hope you can understand my explanation (sounds kinda like "who's on first" :grin: )

 

[MikeChapin]

I would second what Ghettogun said. It does sound like the triggers are set too high. If you are leary of filing on the triggers you can shim out the trigger plate a little.

Sometimes the mainspring on the triggers is set too tight and pushes the rear trigger blade up to where it is pushing on the sear enough to not let the sear engage the tumbler like it should. To fix it just back the mainspring screw out a tiny bit.

 

[varsity07840]

If you're timid about fileing down the trip bar, you can try backing off the screw that holds down the trigger mainspring a bit. Less tension should lower the bar a bit allowing the sear to engage. The trick is to back it off just enough for clearance but still leave enough tension to trip the sear. A little loc-tite on the threads will prevent the screw from loosening further. Installing an adjustable backlash screw that threads through the trigger plate(similar to the trigger adjustment screw you referred to) below the mainspring and puts upward pressure on it will do the same thing while allowing the retainer screw to remain tight. A bit more invloved though.

Duane

 

[BrownBear]

If I'm reading your post right, you bought the kit yourself and built it yourself? And been dealing with that trigger situation ever since, rather than it being something that started recently?

I've got a factory built GRRW rifle, and I'm going to assume that it's got the same trigger as yours. That hammer should stay cocked when you pull it back, with no manipulation of the triggers whatsoever.

I agree with some of the others that it's likely just an adjustment problem. And as already said I'd try backing out the screw between the triggers just a little at a time. Try half a turn, then try to cock the hammer. Won't stay cocked, go another half a turn. If that doesn't sort it out, then I'd try the same with the tension screw on the mainspring.

If that doesn't solve it either, then the chances are good that when you set the trigger plate, it went too deep and you're getting trip bar engagement when you shouldn't. Rather than filing and hacking on it, I'd test that theory first however. Shim the trigger plate out just a litte, Pieces of aluminum pop can should be fine. Try one layer, and if that doesn't work, keep adding layers. The cumulative thickness of the aluminum shims required to back off the trigger plate will tell you just about ferzactly how much metal will have to be filed off the tripper bar.

If the screw adjustment and the shims still don't restore things to where they ought to be, I'd sure be inclined to send the rifle to a knowledgeable traditional gunsmith, rather than hacking on it myself. Just cautious by nature, I guess. There are some real knowledgeable sorts here on the site, but I don't know which do the work for hire.

 

[bodiebill]

Thanks for all the helpful comments. Like other "quality gun forums" I have found a camaraderie of friends who are willing to share experience.

I backed out the screw between the triggers, a step at a time. This helped some, but it was soon extending out too far.
I will try the mainspring screw next.
Thanks again.
I must admit that I have not shot this GRRW Hawken in many years---shame to neglect such fine gun.

I also have the GRRW/Montana Historical Society commenerative copy of the original Jim Bridger. Hawken. Obviously not a shooter.
BodieBill

 

[Zonie]

As was mentioned, you could remove the trigger from the stock and see what it looks like.

If that is too much work (and it can be if the trigger guard is pinned) then remove the lock and look down into the hole that the sear arm lives in when the lock is in the gun.

While looking down the hole, push the rear trigger forward.
While the rear trigger is held forward you should see the metal blade that is a part of the rear trigger.

Now, pull the rear trigger back just far enough for it to start to have some spring pressure on it. Do not try to cock it at this time.

You should not see much if any of the rear trigger blade IF the trigger is a Double Set, Double lever style like most folks are familiar with.

Now, pull the front trigger back. You should see the front trigger blade move upward into the hole.


If pulling the front trigger does not raise a blade up into the sear arm hole in the wood you have a Double Set Single Lever trigger.

This type of set trigger cannot be fired using just the front trigger. The rear trigger MUST BE SET in order to cock the gun.

These Double Set Single Lever triggers are popular with target shooters and with people who have a lock without a fly.

If you have one of these triggers before you decide to change it to a Double Set Double lever trigger make sure your lock has a fly in the tumbler. If it doesn't, then the Double Set Single Lever trigger is the only type of Set trigger that will work.

PS: I forgot to say what the visible difference is if you remove the triggers.
A Double Lever Double set trigger that can be fired with either the front trigger or the rear trigger in a "set" positon will have a blade on the top of BOTH the front trigger and the rear trigger.

A Single Lever Double Set trigger will only have the blade on the top of the rear "set" trigger.
The front trigger will look like a small hook or latch and it's only function is to hold the rear trigger in the cocked position.

 

[bodiebill]

Thanks for all the help
Does anyone have some drawings, sketches or pictures that show the trigger and lock mechanisms with the names of the parts?
Is there a drawing (series of drawings) that show the sequence of action during the half cock position, full cock position, trigger release, etc.
This would be helpful for me to fully understand the full action of cocking, trigger release etc.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you go to Bob Spenser's Website-
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

he has an article on Lock terminology for both percussion and flintlocks. You can see those to better understand the insides of your lock plate.

I don't know a ready picture of a set trigger, but if you own one, simply take it out of the stock- a couple of screws to remove at most-- and then examine it closely as you set and "fire" the triggers. You will quickly see what moves when you pull on the different triggers.

If you take the lock off your rifle, and simply examine the parts as you move them, by cocking the hammer back, you will see what moves, and what connects with what.

All moving parts are controlled by the springs. In a percussion lock, there are two springs. In a flintlock there are two on the inside of the lockplate, and one on the outside to control the frizzen.

The mainspring and sear spring are the two springs in the inside of both lock plates, and are common to both kinds of locks. Some modern locks now use coil springs instead of a leaf- V-Springs for the Main Spring.

The Main Spring gets its name because its connected to the Tumbler, to which the hammer is attached outside your lock plate. This large spring does the major job of rotating the tumbler when the sear is released by the action of the trigger(s). Spend a little time just looking at your own lock, outside of the gunstock, as you cock and release the hammer. Its not all that complicated a piece of equipment, and that is the reason these locks were used on firearms for so long a period of time. They were simple, well engineered, and well made, to last through the abuses of Wars. :thumbsup: