grouping, PA pellet Flintlock

[johnstonab]

I have a PA pellet FL. first time to the range i was shooting pyrodex 60gr and was all ove the target. next time to the range i upped the charge to 80gr, still pyrodex, and now i have a group. not the best but still grouping. of course with pyrodex in a flintlock, flash in the pan or long hangfire. much reading on here and got some goex ffg (thanx). went to the range this past weekend and loaded 80gr goex under a PRB and now i am back to all over the taget again :cursing:
any ideas, motivation, sugestions are all welcome.

thanks
ten ji

 

[johnstonab]

ok sorry more details:
.490 ball, .015 patch, wonderlube
25-40 yards (depending on which trip it was)
ffffg goex primer
ffg goex charge (60, 80 & 90gr)
swabing atleas every 3rd shot if not more.
all over target=upto 10 inches from POA at 35 yds

 

[biliff]

What do your fired patches look like?

 

[rafterob]

Let's assume you are now getting good firing with the use of real BP. Now you need to go for consistency. Pick a set distance to shoot at for load development, usually 25-50 yards, I start at 25. Shoot off a rest to eliminate varience due to holding issues. Shoot 5 shot groups starting with 50 grains and increasing charges in 5 grain increments (looks like you are on the right track). I settle on the load that gives me the best grouping at the highest point of impact. Once you have a good load developed then work on getting the rifle sighted in and then consistent grouping and accuracy will come with more and more practice. Be patient, this will take a few range sessions. New barrels take some "shooting in" before they settle down so by the time you have gone through the above steps the barrel should be approaching that point.

 

[Zonie]

tenji:
Welcome to the Forum.

I think Bakeoven Bill is on the right track.

The recovered patches are the key to finding out the cause of an open pattern like you describe.

The recovered patches will have the entire outer edge tattered but the circular area where the ball was squeezing the patch against the bore should be in good condition.

If that area of the patch has cuts or burned areas it can indicate several different problems.

Cuts which will look like slits running in the direction of the rifling can be caused by the sharp edges of the rifling grooves.
They can also be caused by the sharp edges of the rifling grooves at the crown of the muzzle which can cut the patch as you are starting the patched ball into the bore.

Burn thru's are caused by either too hot of a powder load (not in your case), a lack of lubrication or a patch/ball combination that does not provide enough pinch on the patch.

I have shot some "pre-lubed" patches that were old when I bought them at the gun store.
The fired patches were not cut or burned. They were totally blown apart!

If your patches are blown apart (whether "pre-lubed" or not) it indicates the material is weak and if that is the case they will never provide good accuracy.

Next time you shoot your rifle be sure to collect all of the fired patches. They will be about 10-25 feet downrange and if it is slightly windy they can be blown up to 10 feet to the side as well.

 

[ebiggs1]

Consistency is the key word here. Make sure you do the same thing every time you are grouping. A good bench rest is a real plus.
Real flint. Real black powder. Bore Butter. I like 018 pillow ticking patches and, yes, by all means capture them after shooting to see what is happening.
The last advise is shoot and than shoot some more, etc, etc!

 

[johnstonab]

i didn't see the patches, wasn't looking hard and didn't know how far out to look.

 

[johnstonab]

I will take y'all's advice and look for the patches next time. I will also start with a close target, i was sharing with my buddy last time so i split the diff for both of us. i didn't think of starting with that low of a powder charge but i couldn't hurt (much).

 

[bigbuckdn]

I was just reading about that gun and what i read on it it was cabable of shooting 3 pellets 150 grain it seemed to be the flintlock built like an inline had quick remove breach for cleaning and I thought could be wrong but i thought it had a fast twist for sabbots

 

[bigbuckdn]

just went back to tc website its a 1:48 twist
has a coned breach plug to match the cone on the pellets you might wan't to try conicals with that particular rifle
good luck and happy shooting

 

[ebiggs1]

Is his gun a TC? I think it is a CVA. I know that TC has the Firestorm but I don't believe his is one. BTW, a Firestorm will shoot RB's just fine.

 

[Leo Gigliotti]

ten ji, I also just recently got a PA Pellet about a month ago and had the same results. Being new to Flintlocks I thought it was just me at first. I did manage to get a doe with it two weeks ago. A couple guys said to check the sights because they might have been loose. On mine they weren't and I am just waiting for some better weather to really put it through it's paces.
There's a lot of good info here from a bunch of great guys.

Leo

 

[Dalekg6]

I hope this doesn't get me booted off the board but you may want to back up and try what the rifle was built for, ie pellets and sabots. Once you get that to work change one thing at a time until it works with more traditional loads.

 

[tg]

It could be that this gun has a limited range in what it will shoot well as it was made in an attempt to qualify for a special season with some modern traits/qualities we do not hear a lot about the here, but buy experimenting and taking notes and changing only one thing at a time one might find a sweet spot for PRB if that is the round of choice,this gun may like 3f, it is made to shoot modern conicals I suspect so they should work well with the right combo of pellets. I do not know how loose powder replacement for the pellets works, it may not be as simple as volume for volume and with pyro a "starter" of some real BP will be needed which can skew the exchange rate so to speak, this is why often the traditional type guns are often easier to work up loads with.Good luck with your project and keep in the back of your mind the possibility of a traditional flinter someday in the future, you will not regret it.

 

[nkbj]

I have a PA pellet FL. first time to the range i was shooting pyrodex 60gr and was all ove the target. next time to the range i upped the charge to 80gr, still pyrodex, and now i have a group. not the best but still grouping. of course with pyrodex in a flintlock, flash in the pan or long hangfire. much reading on here and got some goex ffg (thanx). went to the range this past weekend and loaded 80gr goex under a PRB and now i am back to all over the taget again :cursing:
any ideas, motivation, sugestions are all welcome.

thanks
ten ji

Hey there.
If the rifle is new then you will almost certainly need to shoot it in to get the corners on the rifling smoothed down a little to stop cutting the patches. If you acquired it from someone else then they may have been using lead bullets or plastic sabots; it may still have something in the barrel. Maybe, just maybe, one of those eventualities are part of the problem.
Please come back with more info as you work it out. I myself would really like to know as the rifle is very interesting to me, being a flintlock engineered to work with fairly massive charges of powder and lead for a .50 caliber.

 

[Zonie]

The PA pellet Flintlock is imported by Traditions from Ardesa in Spain.

 

[nkbj]

Had the opportunity to purchase one used for an extremely good price in Pennsylvania about a year ago. The reliability experienced with Traditions flintlocks made it rather attractive. Ended up spending the money on TC only because of stumbling into a covey of GM barrels.

 

[johnstonab]

it is a traditions. the manual says it will work fine with loose powder. i personaly don't like pellets. i got the gun b/c the starter kit was $159 at gander mntn. like i said before, i got good groups using 80 gr pyrodex loose powder. the rifling is 1 in 48 twist for PRB and connicals, i did shoot the two sabots i had with me and not much different than the prb. i would love to get an other flinter but i want to get this one on first.