Grouping

[elkslayer]

I am curious being relatively new to traditional shooting what your setup is.
1. rifle caliber and twist

2. load
3. max accurate range and group size at that range.

I have been shooting a hawken 50 cal 1in 48 twist with .490 roundball with 0.10 patch and 85 grains ffg black powder. at 100 yards i am getting 4-5inch groups. I am hoping that any information i get from you guys could help me improve my shooting expectations.

 

[Grullaguy]

You can move up to a .015 patch and then play with your velocity to see what your combination likes. Start at 50 grains and work your way up to see if there is a sweet spot.

A thicker patch is a good start though with that ball size.

But I would be pretty happy to get a 4 inch grouping at 100 yards. My front sight completely blocks a 10" bull at that distance.

 

[jparsons]

I shoot a t/c with a 1/48 and use 18thousand with a.490 with 60 grns of 3f get a group just under a inch at 75 yards on the bench and a 6 clock sight picture much more powder and I start bucning patches

 

[jamesthomas]

I wish I could see a target at 100 yrds . My flintlock rifle will shoot a 2-2 1/2 inch group at 50 yards using 65grns of 3fff KIK .490 RB with a .24 Pillow ticking patch (according to my calipers) and Hoppes #9 blackpowder lube. Thats off the bench. I have a Green Mountain with a 1/70 twist.

 

[necchi]

Well Sir, your pretty darn close already. Some minor improvements can always be found in the PRB combo,
But the limiting factor is the iron sights
If you have the typical rear dove with front bead that's designed for hunting accuracy your about maxed out for their capability.
Changing to a Partidge style open target sight will knock another inch off the group and you might be able to shave another with peeps.

Now we're talking 2-3" groups at 100 and you'll need to be a Darn good shooter for that. All the different sights and prb combos won't just give you groups like that alone, it's alot of practice and conditioning of the shooter too get there.
Grab a 223, 30-30 or 30-06 with these kinds of iron sights and see how ya do.

 

[hoochiepapa]

If you're covering the bull with your front sight, try putting the front sight at 6 o'clock.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I shoot a t/c with a 1/48 and use 18thousand with a.490 with 60 grns of 3f get a group just under a inch at 75 yards on the bench and a 6 clock sight picture much more powder and I start bucning patches

That is quite good. I will suggest, with that kind of shooting you would probably win any match you entered anywhere.

 

[longcruise]

That is quite good. I will suggest, with that kind of shooting you would probably win any match you entered anywhere.

Probably would not allow bench shooting in most matches. Certainly illustrates fine accuracy in the rifle though.

 

[jparsons]

For the last three years mu shoulder has been so bad a bench is about all I could shoot from just went through surgery I'm aug and still don't have streanth in it yet

 

[Rifleman1776]

For the last three years mu shoulder has been so bad a bench is about all I could shoot from just went through surgery I'm aug and still don't have streanth in it yet

Been there, been through the surgery and not so successful recovery. Still, and always will, live with it.

 

[hanshi]

4" groups at 100yds using open sights is very good. You might try a thicker patch.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I find that most (but not all ) of my rifles give the best groups with from 5 grain FFF under the caliber to 10 grain FFF over caliber. :idunno:

 

[majg1234]

not too bad as it is.....might try a felt wad over powder seems to help a lot of times but as other have said the sights are your limiter here

 

[rafterob]

I shoot 2 rifles, both .50 cal. The first is a Traditions Hawken 28" barrel, 1:48 twist with 70 grn. ffg Goex, .490 or .495 ball and .18 pillowticking patch. The second is a CVA Mtn. Rifle, 32" barrel, 1:66 twist with 65 grns. ffg, same patch and balls. Both rifles I can get offhand groups 2-3" out to 75 yards. I feel very fortunate if I can get them in the black (6" bull) at 100 yards. The traditions drops about 6" at 100 yards the CVA only about 2-3". With a 5 shot scoring target at 100 yards its a good day for me when I score all 5, a great day to score all 5 in the black, an exceptional day to hit the 10 ring! Limiting factor (as others have said) is the open sights and 50+ year old eyesight. The Mtn. rifle with ladder peep sights or a scope I would trust easily to 2 or 3 hundred yards.

 

[aeatwood]

I would also recommend a thicker patch. You may have to break the sharp edges (if any) on the muzzle to load it w/o cutting the patch on the lands. I would try .018 and .020, and play around with lubes also. I've had real good luck w/ saliva for target shooting, and Hoppe's #9 PLUS for the same. For hunting you don't want water based. Try ToTW's mink oil, or Redwing's Mink oil for shoes. they should be fine for hunting in cold weather, since they don't dry out, and they don't cause rust.

For a hunting load in .50, I would start about 70 gr of 3f, and go up to maybe 90. You should get better accuracy if the patch holds up.

If you don't see any improvement, switch to 2F and try from 70 to about 100gr. Accuracy should improve the heavier the charge as long as the patch holds up. Shoot 4-5 groups of 5 or 10 at each load combination. One 5 shot group is insufficient to determine grouping, especially how well the patch/lube combo is cleaning the barrel. You are looking for one that pushes the majority of the fouling ahead of it when you load.

Once you have the powder charge (mostly) figured out, try cleaning between groups to determine if the first shot will land near the group. You may have to tweak patch thickness, amount of lube, or type of lube to get the first shot in. Ramming pressure should remain the same from the 1st shot to the 200th shot without cleaning.

Accomplish this, grasshopper, and you will be one with gun.

 

[mactire32]

I shoot a thompson hawken, It likes a .490 round ball with .018 pillow ticking lubed with bore butter sitting behaind 70grains of FFF tripleseven powder. I would try goin with a bigger patch first. a buddy of mine was using .010 patches in his firearm with ok accuracy. He tried my .018 pillowticking ones and his grouping tightened up real quick. He ended up buying some of my homemade ones. lol

 

[Pacobillie]

I shoot a .45 TC Hawken caplock. 1:48" twist rate. My rifle likes .440 PRB with .018 pre-lubed pillow ticking patches. I use 60 grains of Pyrodex P, ignited by a DWS musket cap. I am able to achieve about 1.4 inch groups at 50 yards with iron sights, using either a sand bag, shooting sticks or my own left forearm as a front rest, if there is no wind. Groups open up to about 4 inches at 100 yds.

It does not group well with T7, and/or with conicals.