Grouse loads for 12 ga

[Mr Mortimer]

Greetings Gentlemen.
I have a Pedersoli Mortimer fouling piece and could use some advice on loads to use. About 4 years ago my group stopped chasing moose (they are smarter than we are) and started after Grouse. Although my 20 ga unmentioable with an improved cylinder bore did a good job, it's boring. My wife liked Mortimer over a side-by-side, and the rest is history. I'm now hooked on flintlocks. I've gotten past the pan flash flinch and now only blink when smoke comes out the muzzle.
Last year I used either too light a load or not close enough or both. Through the summer I've developed a heavy load using cushion wads. Not traditional, but much easier to load in the field - close fit and loads easily. Having lots left over from trapshooting helps. I get an open full choke with it, using 90 grains of either 1F or 2F. At the distance I usually encounter birds, I fear this load will produce hamburger rather than breast meat.
What would you suggest, Gentlemen?

 

[Phil Coffins]

Look at the box of 20 gauge shells that you liked using and see if it has drams equivalent. Use that in black powder with the same shot load listed and you’ll be right in there. With my muzzle loading 12 gauge I’ve used as little as 7/8 ounces of shot up to 1 3/4 ounces with corasponding powder charges.

 

[GANGGREEN]

For what it's worth, grouse are actually quite easy to kill, so it's more about a uniform and somewhat open pattern than energy. Good luck with it, grouse hunting is one of my passions and my setter and I spend a good bit of time chasing them.

 

[NorthFork]

I second what Phil Coffins said. Duplicate your favorite 20 gauge load in velocity and shot size and weight. On a separate note, how do you like your Mortimer?

 

[Feltwad]

The standard load for a 12bore for game is 2.3/4 drms of FFg {27.5grains to 1drm} to 1.1/8 oz of 6 or 7 shot, this load will kill grouse and upland game to 35-40 yards
Feltwad

 

[Eterry]

You have an Open Full Choke? I'm missing something here...

 

[Carbon 6]

When I was young I killed many grouse with my .410 double. If it was me, I would switch to 3F powder, get the powder charge down around 60 grains and reduce the shot charge to 3/4 of an ounce, and increase the pellet size.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I don't hunt grouse but my 12 gauge pedroseli likes 75 grain FF and 1 ounce of # 6 shot for pheasants and cotton tails.

 

[Mr Mortimer]

For what it's worth, grouse are actually quite easy to kill, so it's more about a uniform and somewhat open pattern than energy. Good luck with it, grouse hunting is one of my passions and my setter and I spend a good bit of time chasing them.

Thanks for your sugestion. I tried to duplicate my favorite 410 load last year and found it lacking. Would knock birds down, with a few "flutterers". Like my game to drop dead. I'm going to try Feltwad's sugestion of 1 1/8 oz - my old trap load.
I also like grouse. Nice walk on a fall day in the woods. Grouse are a bit easier to drag back to camp than moose as well.

 

[Mr Mortimer]

You have an Open Full Choke? I'm missing something here...

Bit confusing on re-read. It's about half way between modified and full. A tight modified, if you prefer, Sir.

 

[Carbon 6]

Like my game to drop dead.

I'm a firm believer in velocity and size when that's the goal. Bigger shot and less of it means higher velocity and a harder hit..
That's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[Mr Mortimer]

I second what Phil Coffins said. Duplicate your favorite 20 gauge load in velocity and shot size and weight. On a separate note, how do you like your Mortimer?

I quite like my Mortmer. Seems well made. I would have prefered a bit more weight, perhaps, but is certainly easy to cary. Not fond of the "browning" on the barrel. Seems to be some sort of paint or coating, and is starting to come off around the vent.
1F and 2F work well, ith the nod going to 2F for a slightly better pattern. I've tried 3F and you certainly know when it goes off. Pattern seems a bit erratic and the gun isself priming to some degree, so 2F it is for me.
You have to like flintlocks of course. I believe it comes in caplock as well. I enjoy the fireworks.

 

[jlatz]

For grouse I'd recommend a 2 1/2 dram charge of fff and an ounce of number 7 shot. That is considered a square load using a shot dipper set for once ounce. That equals 2 1/2 drams of powder. Have a tight over powder wad and half of a cushion wad. under the shot. At Friendship, Ind., at eh NMLRA trap range most use fff Goex powder. It burns cleaner.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I too have a Pedersoli Mortimer that I've used grouse hunting, primarily because where I hunt, small game season immediately precedes the muzzleloading big game season, and I used it while scouting for deer. I hunted grouse the day before big game season with the 13 gauge barrel and deer the next day with the .54 caliber rifled barrel. It was an easy gun to travel with, and your post inspires me to bring it north this season. I achieved the best pattern with 82 1/2 grains of 2FG beneath 4 pierced 13 gauge overshot wads, 1 1/4 ounces of # 6 shot, topped off with two pierced 13 gauge overshot cards to keep the column in place.

The Pedersoli Mortimer is a heavy gun even in shotgun configuration. The chrome lined bore adds to the weight, and the load described above is very pleasant to shoot, delivering lethal results with very little felt recoil. Kit Ravenshear shared this bit of doggerel with me over 30 years ago" Less powder, more lead/shoots further, kills dead." I've always achieved best results with moderate loads.

Oddly enough, I've used the Mortimer for effective garden pest control.
22 grains of 3FG behind 2 pierced 13 gauge overshot cards, 7/8ths of a dram (not an ounce) of #6 and a single pierced overshot wad humanely and quietly eliminates pests at 10-15 yards.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The first year I lived and hunted in Arkansas I took several shots at some grouse with my Colt repro Navy revolver. Missed every shot. Learned later Arkansas doesn't have grouse. They were turkey jakes. No help with yer question but ye triggered a memory.

 

[nhmoose]

Bit confusing on re-read. It's about half way between modified and full. A tight modified, if you prefer, Sir.

Term used is improved modified

 

[Mr Mortimer]

Term used is improved modified

Interesting. I would have thought that describes between improved cylinder and modified. Live and learn. Thanks.

 

[Mr Mortimer]

Thanks to all for your ideas. Back to the patterning board to see what Mort likes.

 

[Rudyard]

Supprised to see choked barrels. I only used two choked that where made from a BL barrel all the Wm Bader, North Star or NZ made brls I used where just true cylinder , Didn't seem a problem to the customers . Two shot for UK in international matches .Only made them in flintlock . There was some 'Galyon' ? offered in percussion but no flints at that time . The' Mortimer' came later. All mine had the Nocks Patent breaching unless they didn't want that plan . Most being 12 bore I wish now Ide bought more 16 bore tubes from Mr Bader. Very good for Govt Carbine patterns But many I used Getz for ones over 36" . Not that you couldn't load the chokes just had to fuss more with wadding .
Rudyard

 

[fraungie]

Greetings Gentlemen.
I have a Pedersoli Mortimer fouling piece and could use some advice on loads to use. About 4 years ago my group stopped chasing moose (they are smarter than we are) and started after Grouse. Although my 20 ga unmentioable with an improved cylinder bore did a good job, it's boring. My wife liked Mortimer over a side-by-side, and the rest is history. I'm now hooked on flintlocks. I've gotten past the pan flash flinch and now only blink when smoke comes out the muzzle.
Last year I used either too light a load or not close enough or both. Through the summer I've developed a heavy load using cushion wads. Not traditional, but much easier to load in the field - close fit and loads easily. Having lots left over from trapshooting helps. I get an open full choke with it, using 90 grains of either 1F or 2F. At the distance I usually encounter birds, I fear this load will produce hamburger rather than breast meat.
What would you suggest, Gentlemen?

There is an old writing that says 1/3 more shot than nitrous dust. It means 1/3 more shot than powder. I shot 70grs of 2fpowder and 90grs of shot. I use the same volumetric measure. This load works well in both my 20 and my 12 ga.