GRRW Leman Trade Rifle

[rescuemike]

About 6 months ago, I took "the plunge" into the world of muzzleloading.. As a noob to the tradition, I am sure I will make mistakes here and there.. please point them out so I am can learn!!

I had an friend, who had a friend, who knew a guy getting a divorce, and needed to sell his smoke pole.. "It's beautiful!" My friend tells me... "It was HAND made by some guy named Doc White... He wants $400, and will give you all the extra stuff he has!!"

So, knowing almost nothing about black powder, I bought it.

"Green River Rifle Works .50 Percussion cap, tiger maple stock, 32 in barrel, nickle silver forecap, perfect condition..."
That's the description I got. Once I bought it, it was truly a beautiful piece of muzzleloading art. I was very happy, however was lost! The rifle had NO paperwork, and I had no clue what I could or could not do! So, I tracked down an email address for 'Doc' White and fired off a few questions.. First, where is the serial #, where are the builder stamps I heard so much about??

My GRRW Leman Rifle, is actually a GRRW Kit gun. Doc said its a beautiful piece, but it was not built by GRRW, only a kit with their parts.

So, there she is! I know nothin about the kind of lock, or any marks under the barrel, hell, I don't even know how to take the barrel off the stock! All I know is, she kicks like mule, and shot a 4 inch group at 75 yards.. Any advise, questions, observations, or things I should know??

Please pardon the long post, and my newbie ignorance!

 

[Rifleman1776]

It does look like a fine rifle. Congrats.
You should not have to remove the barrel under normal circumstances. Just be careful with the water when cleaning.
The "kicks like a mule" comment bothers me. It should not be unpleasant to shoot with proper loads.
Tell us what kind of powder you are using and how much of a charge. Are you using patched round balls or some kind of bullet/sabot/minie thingy?

 

[rescuemike]

Lol! Oh it is not unpleasant to shoot! I shot it with ffg and fffg powder, with loads from 80-100 grains, patched round balls, and pre- lubed minies... the recoil is just a whole lot different than the rifles I have been shooting for the last 30 years.

I just keep reminding myself that I am shooting a .50 cal hunk of lead, and not a .30 cal copper jacketed missle!!

 

[steved]

Rescue Mike,

If you only plan on punching paper with that fine rifle, you can drop the powder charge down to 50gr and shoot all day long without feeling the kick. If you plan on hunting with it, I suggest you try to find the most accurrate load between 70g and 90gr. Once that's done, dial back to 50gr - 60gr when just punching paper or plinking.

From the pictures it looks like the barrel is pinned to the stock. If you want to remove the barrel to clean (setting the breech end in a bucket of water and pumping the cleaning rod/jag/patch up and down the barrel) you can remove the barrel by carefully punching out the pin(s) with a small diameter punch, then remove the tang screw. Some people always clean in place and never remove the barrel. I'm in the camp that removes the barrel every time. In my case I (carefully) punch out 4 pins and the tang screw. In reality it only adds about 10 minutes to the overall cleaning time but I like the idea of flushing the barrel with water + not having to worry about cleaning solvents and water damaging the finish on my stock if the toothpick in the flashhole or nipple got knocked out or otherwise allowed leakage.

 

[LaBonte]

Nice piece and regarding recoil - this style rifle with the curved butt plate was designed to be shot off the upper arm and not the shoulder - hard to explain in writing how-to, assuming your right handed, lift your right arm until your elbow is on level with your shoulder and them feel just below the shoulder joint the big hunk of muscle - that's where the butt plate should sit. Using this type hold I've shot big bores (up to 69) using large charges with a lot less discomfort than off the shoulder. It's just a matter of learning a new technique.

 

[rescuemike]

That actually makes sense! The rifle seems to want to drop there naturally. Seems to be easier to aim too.. Thanks!!!

 

[hanshi]

You got yourself a very nice rifle for a very good price. As for charges I find the lightest load that is finely accurate and use that as my target/practice/plinking/small game load. For deer I do as has been suggested by the others and go up in 5grn increments till I get tight groups.

I'm not necessarily recommending but will relate what/how I handle shooting and cleaning. First, I always shoot ALL guns off my shoulder regardless of butt plate design. This gives me the best accuracy. Recoil doesn't bother my shooting and I'm like a stump the way I tolerate it. I just shoot and rub my shoulder later after I get home.

It is not generally, IMHO, a good idea to remove a pinned barrel for cleaning unless the pins are larger than normal and designed specifically so as to stand up to frequent removal. It is so very easy to ruin the stock from chipping around the pin hole and stocks are known to occasionally crack at the pinned locations. It is easy to clean a gun with water and patches without disassembly and often only takes maybe 15 minutes give or take. You should remove and clean the lock each time. Dry it and use a good rust preventative. Congratulations on a fine acquisition.

 

[rescuemike]

Sound advice! I'll have to do some research here on how to disassemblr the lock, it is pinned and i have no idea how it removes..

Thanks for the advice guys! I am planning on using the rifle for hunting deer and elk, and the 90g loads seemed to shoot best.. As for going to shoot for fun?? My busy schedule would never allow it!! Seems like I have to schedule time to go to the latrine!

 

[docbob]

Mike,
That's a fine looking rifle and the price was right, too! You've already gotten a lot of good advice, but do find out the way to remove the lock before You try it.
Best Wishes,
Doc

 

[LaBonte]

Sound advice! I'll have to do some research here on how to disassemblr the lock, it is pinned and i have no idea how it removes..

FYI - the lock is not pinned that pin is for the trigger. To remove the lock, Gently back out the bolt as shown in this image

and then if the lock does not remove easily GENTLY tap on the head of the bolt until the lock moves out of it's mortise. That's all you need to do to remove the lock.

 

[Adui]

Another bit of advice for cleaning. I used to use a piece of fish tank tubing (and still do sometimes when I don't want to remove the barrel). I place the tube over the nipple, it fits snug. The other end goes in a (bottle / can / tin / cup) of cleaning solution. Pump it in and out using the cleaning jag and a good wet patch. A few good strokes sucked enough solution in and out at a good pressure rate that it cleans up nice. Dry patch the bore till the patches come out clean and dry, oil as normal. Just be sure and don't let the tube slip off the nipple or you get solution on the stock.

 

[Sinner]

Nice looking rifle!
I agree with the above comments about NOT removing the pinned barrel to clean. If you have a hard time finding a piece of hose to fit securely on to the nipple, you can buy a cleaning "kit" for about $15 that has a nipple and hose combo.
Some people suggest removing the lock after each shooting session to clean, but I've never had to do that and neither do any of the guys I know that shoot. I do suggest removing the lock once a year to clean, inspect and lube.
As already stated, you should be able to remove the lock by loosening the lock bolt, gently tapping to loosen the lock plate, and then remove the bolt the rest of the way. BE SURE to have the hammer at half-cock so it doesn't hang up on the nipple.

 

[rescuemike]

Thank you so much for that!! I have had no luck finding any info on how to remove the lock!!

 

[LaBonte]

You're most welcome.

BTW - where are you at in SW Washington? I used to live in Western Washington and could maybe hook you up with some folks who are into muzzleloading in your area??????

and Sinner thanks - I forgot to mention about the half-cock position. Been at this for 51 years and sometimes forget about the "simple" things.......

 

[Sinner]

You are very welcome! That's one reason I like this forum so much... there's always someone to remind me of when I forget some of the small stuff. It's nice to have a heads up when preparing to attempt something new. :thumbsup:

 

[rescuemike]

We are in Vancouver Wa.. right i love the Columbia river, across from Portland OR.. Would love to meet up witb a group for some Black powder fun! Maybe our own little Rendezvous!

 

[jw johnson]

I have the same rifle in .58 caliber. It is a very accurate and fine rifle.
Don't remove the barrel!

I clean it using a "kit" consisting of a fake nipple and a ruber tube. I heat some water in a tea pot which at one point belonged to my wife, but after she saw what I was using it for, she said I could have it. :grin: I place some soap in the hot water and elevate it above the lock on a milk crate so the water/tea pot is above the rifle. I have the rifle on a horizontal gun vice. Screw out the nipple and screw in the one that comes with the kit. Attach the tube and put the other end in the pot of soap and water, put a clean patch on your jag attached to the ram rod and run it back and forth in the barrel. It will start to plunge water back and forth cleaning the crud out of the barrel. I will brush it and then patch/plunge it again unitl its clean.

Once it's clean, I will run some pretty hot clean water in the same manner and then swab it dry. It will dry fairly quickley using hot water. Once Dry, I shoot some Baricade spray down the barrel and swab it in with a clean patch until its all coated. This will preserve it. I pull the lock and give it a bath and shoot it with Baracade and let it dry before installing it back into the stock.

Baracade will dry to a film and not run all over like other oils will. I have never had a rust issue.

I wipe the outside down with a protectant and store it in a warm dry place (near the woodstove in the winter).

My Leman is a great gun and very accurate. I have a list of folks who want to buy it.

I live in Salem, and there is a monthly shoot down this way if your interested let me know.

Congrats on a great gun!

 

[nwtradegun]

forget the minies those grrw barrels are for round ball. it should be a tack driver.start at 60 gr and go up

 

[SamTex1949]

Welcome to the GRRW family ! I just discovered this post on the Leman Trade Rifle of yours. I also have one I orderd from GRRW way back (1975). At that time they offered 3 options ( I think) straight "do it yourself kit", a semi-finished kit ( assembled only required finish of wood and metal) and full built rifle. Mine is in .54 cal and actually likes a .526 RB! any thing larger is just a real pain to load ! Mine shows the years well but is not shiny at all. Mine had a estuchions and barrel key for barrel removal. Ill take some photos and try and post here.

 

I live in (West) Portland and am looking for BP shoots. I would really love to find out about such stuff in this area (actually any).

There seems to be a 2nd Sunday shoot in a Sherwood gun club, but I'm in church then anyway.

Paul