-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
GRRW
- Thread starter R Jones
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Amigos, The Hawken in the picture is it.Except the wood. It has the initials GRRW, Roosevelt UT onthe top of the barrel not written out like shown.You would not believe the crud I scrubbed off of this gun. Had to use a air hose just to blow the dust off of it.The rifling was very clean. Whatever was used in the barrel to coat it worked. I plan on shooting it today, and will give it a good cleaning after the range session.Hopefully I can give some revised info then. Thanks for all the info so far. R Jones
Herb
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,954
- Reaction score
- 454
Neill called me back with further info. The maker's mark is a W inside a C (not a circle), inside a square. That is Carl Walker's mark. He was the top Hawken maker at GRRW from start to finish, which was late 1979 or early 1980. They went out of business not due to a fire but due to poor financial management. Carl Walker still lives in Roosevelt, Utah. Pat Lakin and Joe Gondeck sure look different now! I'll ask Neill why he isn't in these photos, because I know he was there. That may be him in the small photo on the left under the word "missing". At any rate, you've got one of the best GRRW Hawkens.
Thanks Herb ! I just returned from shooting it. It seems to like 70 to 80 Grs. of 2-F. It shoots like a house on fire. I don't have a clue as to what the Max. load for these rifles. Not that I am much on max. loads. Just curious. This rifle just moved into the # 1 slot in my cabin !! If I told you what I paid for it, you wouldn't like me !! :grin:
plmeek
40 Cal.
Jones, sounds like our rifles were made by the same person. Here is a photo of the maker's mark on the rifle pictured in my last post.
This rifle has J&S Hawken stamped on the top flat midway between the breech and the rear sight. That and the maker's mark (pictured above) on the left flat near the breech are the only stamps visible when the barrel is in the stock. The GRRW and Roosevelt, Utah along with the serial number and caliber are stamped on the bottom flat near the breech.
As I commented before, GRRW rifles were semi-custom, and they would build them with custom features as requested by the buyer such as only the J&S Hawken stamp on the top flat of my rifle. The engraving on the lock is also a custom feature, and the flat-to-wrist was another option.
Herb, thanks a lot for the information on the maker's mark. You and Neil Fields are a great resource.
Jones, below is a section from the instructions that came with one of my kits with load recommendations.
Unless you have a high tolerance for pain, you probably wouldn't be shooting their recommended max load of 175 gr of FFg black powder for the .54 caliber very many times. Most people find an accurate hunting load in the 100-140 gr range and an accurate target load in the 80-110 gr range. My target load in the .54 cal Leman full-stock, which is lighter than the Hawkens I have, is 90 gr. My hunting load is marginally higher at 110 grs. With the extra weight of the 12.5 lb Hawken, my pain tolerance could stand the recoil of a heavier charge, but I'm too out of shape to lug that much rifle while hunting.
Powderburner,can you post some pictures of your GRRW Poor Boy? I've only seen them in their brochure. My impression is that they didn't make very many of them, given the popularity of the Hawken and Leman trade rifles at the time.
This rifle has J&S Hawken stamped on the top flat midway between the breech and the rear sight. That and the maker's mark (pictured above) on the left flat near the breech are the only stamps visible when the barrel is in the stock. The GRRW and Roosevelt, Utah along with the serial number and caliber are stamped on the bottom flat near the breech.
As I commented before, GRRW rifles were semi-custom, and they would build them with custom features as requested by the buyer such as only the J&S Hawken stamp on the top flat of my rifle. The engraving on the lock is also a custom feature, and the flat-to-wrist was another option.
Herb, thanks a lot for the information on the maker's mark. You and Neil Fields are a great resource.
Jones, below is a section from the instructions that came with one of my kits with load recommendations.
Unless you have a high tolerance for pain, you probably wouldn't be shooting their recommended max load of 175 gr of FFg black powder for the .54 caliber very many times. Most people find an accurate hunting load in the 100-140 gr range and an accurate target load in the 80-110 gr range. My target load in the .54 cal Leman full-stock, which is lighter than the Hawkens I have, is 90 gr. My hunting load is marginally higher at 110 grs. With the extra weight of the 12.5 lb Hawken, my pain tolerance could stand the recoil of a heavier charge, but I'm too out of shape to lug that much rifle while hunting.
Powderburner,can you post some pictures of your GRRW Poor Boy? I've only seen them in their brochure. My impression is that they didn't make very many of them, given the popularity of the Hawken and Leman trade rifles at the time.
Sure, I'll post some photos. However lately I have replaced the original barrel with a green mountain barrel, and it's still in the white. I still have the original barrel, but over the years of shooting it lost its accuracy.Mtn. Meek said:
plmeek
40 Cal.
Thanks, Powderburner. You must have done some shooting over the years to wear out a barrel, or did it lose its choke due to rod wear?
Is it a swamped barrel or straight octagon? How does it hold?
The lock looks like the one that came with my Leman full-stock.
Is it a swamped barrel or straight octagon? How does it hold?
The lock looks like the one that came with my Leman full-stock.
Meek, That makers mark is dead on Pard. 175 gr. 2-F would prolly' be a bit to much for me in a 12 lb. rifle. :grin: Would you choke up to bad iffin' I tolt' ya' I gived $ 250.00 cash American fur' it !!! :grin: Seller wouldn't take no plews in trade. Dango, guns is shur' gittin' pricey. Again, Thanks to all for the info on this gun. I Remain, R Jones
Well, I did shoot it for years...won many matches as well as the yearly club trophy for ten years in a row. It has a straight barrel. It gradually started wearing after years...went from using a .535 ball to a .540 and it never shot right since. The Green Mountain barrel takes a .530 ball. It holds well, but I find it heavy offhand. I had trouble with my eyes the last couple of years...cataract surgeries, so haven't really gotten back into shooting it yet. Been shooting smoothbores a lot lately. The lock is a Siler mountain lock. No buttplate either, just a forged nail in the heel.Mtn. Meek said:
plmeek
40 Cal.
Glad to be of help. I enjoy exchanging info and ideas on these rifles.
You definitely got a bargain there! Let me know if you ever want to part with it.
On a more serious note, you mentioned that your gun was covered in dust. If you are handy with tools and know a little gunsmithing, you might want to take the lock, triggers, and tang out of the stock and see what condition the hidden parts are in. Be sure to use quality hollow ground screwdrivers that fit the screw's slot correctly, so you don't mess them up. Use some penetrating oil if the threads are rusted, so you don't have to force them too much. Removing the lock can be the touchy part. You don't want to pry on anything, especially the lock mortise. The best way is to turn out the lock bolt a few turns, then tap it gently with a non-marring hammer or mallet. If it starts moving, make a few more turns of the lock bolt and tap some more. You can gently work the hammer to wiggle the lock plate, but don't use much force 'cause you don't want to enlarge the hole in the lock plate where the tumble shaft passes through.
The first rifle I posted with the low serial number had been used for 20+ hunting seasons. The original owner took good care of the bore, but he apparently had hunted in rain and/or snow and never cleaned and dried any of the hidden parts. When I took it apart, all the inside steel parts appeared to be covered in rust. I cleaned them with soap and water and a tooth brush. Fortunately, the GRRW makers had coated all of these parts with some sort of wax based coating (probably beeswax), including the screws and bolts. What appeared to be rust was just a fine rust colored dust. The metal was only stained and a little etched. Only the inside of the lock plate was slightly pitted. The threads on the bolts were perfect. It certainly sold me on wax based products for protection of these parts.
You definitely got a bargain there! Let me know if you ever want to part with it.
On a more serious note, you mentioned that your gun was covered in dust. If you are handy with tools and know a little gunsmithing, you might want to take the lock, triggers, and tang out of the stock and see what condition the hidden parts are in. Be sure to use quality hollow ground screwdrivers that fit the screw's slot correctly, so you don't mess them up. Use some penetrating oil if the threads are rusted, so you don't have to force them too much. Removing the lock can be the touchy part. You don't want to pry on anything, especially the lock mortise. The best way is to turn out the lock bolt a few turns, then tap it gently with a non-marring hammer or mallet. If it starts moving, make a few more turns of the lock bolt and tap some more. You can gently work the hammer to wiggle the lock plate, but don't use much force 'cause you don't want to enlarge the hole in the lock plate where the tumble shaft passes through.
The first rifle I posted with the low serial number had been used for 20+ hunting seasons. The original owner took good care of the bore, but he apparently had hunted in rain and/or snow and never cleaned and dried any of the hidden parts. When I took it apart, all the inside steel parts appeared to be covered in rust. I cleaned them with soap and water and a tooth brush. Fortunately, the GRRW makers had coated all of these parts with some sort of wax based coating (probably beeswax), including the screws and bolts. What appeared to be rust was just a fine rust colored dust. The metal was only stained and a little etched. Only the inside of the lock plate was slightly pitted. The threads on the bolts were perfect. It certainly sold me on wax based products for protection of these parts.
plmeek
40 Cal.
Sounds like it might have spent the last 30 years or so as a wall hanger.
Were there any stampings or names on the inside of the lock or triggers?
Were there any stampings or names on the inside of the lock or triggers?
plmeek
40 Cal.
That makes sense to me, Herb. The brochure I have is not dated, so it could be an earlier version. I referred to it as 1978 vintage because that is the earliest date on the correspondence I have with GRRW. Unfortunately, the last digit in the postage cancel on the brochure is not legible. I have another price list dated 1979, and the prices for finished rifles are about $200 more than the prices in the brochure with the staff photo. It is interesting that the prices on the kits only increased about $20. Labor costs appear to have been increasing much faster than the component costs back in the late '70's.
