gun kits (first time builds)

[16gauge]

For those of you who have built your own rifles: what would you suggest, kit-wise, for a first time build? I have seen the different kits available from Track of the Wolf, Dixie gun Works, ect, but I am curious as to what those who have actually built guns think as to which is easiest to build....some of those kits on TOTW look a might detailed!
Thanks in advance.

 

[BCBruce]

your question has no answer since it all depends on what you want, how much you want to pay for it and how skilled you are or want to become.

Some kits are pretty well finished guns that need to be assembled and the wood and metal finished. quality varies and some things like butt length are not adjustable

I have done kits from track, very high quality, very complete but you have to do the final metal and wood fitting as well as finishing. things like inlays and carving add more work.

Suggest you get the book recreating the american longrifle. It shows a gun built from scratch but what you do in a kit gets covered on the way.
The building a muzzleloader video by primitive arts also demonstrates what is involved.

Be nice to say do this but you have to research the matter and proceed on the basis of your own skills or what skills you are prepared to learn.

 

[Old40Rod]

If you are truly doing this for the first time, you may want to try a Lyman Great Plains rifle kit. They will be about 97% complete, all the major inletting is done (you might need to touch some up here and there) but you will learn a fair amount of the basics by completing the last 3% You will also have an accurate and reasonably good looking shooter when you are finished. They are reasonably priced and you can get them in flint or percussion. You can even do a bit of customizing if you want.

The TOTW and other "kits" are closer to a collection of parts, which will require a greater level of work, tools and skill. The price is also quite a bit higher, so you are risking a bit more for a 1st time build.

My 2 cents.

 

[Zonie]

16 guage: The "kits" from TOTW, Pecatonica River, etc are basically a box of parts and a roughed out stock.
The butt plate and trigger guard are very rough sand castings which require filing, sanding and polishing.

If you are unwilling to pay those companies extra money to do some machining, the barrel comes without the breech plug installed. This can take a person who has done it before 1-4 hours. It can take a person who has never done it 2-4 days (and then it may have been done incorrectly).

Because none of the holes are located and drilled, the builder must know where to put them and then to drill them, drill and tap the metal parts for the screws etc.

I don't mean to scare you off but the others are correct. You first need to find a book that describes the building of a muzzleloader before you consider a "kit" of this kind.

Now the kits made by TC, Lyman and Traditions are semi finished factory guns and as the others have said, they can be assembled and finished by most people who have some knowledge of working with tools, sanding and applying a finish.
The gun you end up with will equal or better the guns offered by the factories if you get our help by asking questions here on the forum.
Not only that, but because the stock is semi finished you can reshape it or modify it a bit to look like you want it.
You won't be able to modify the length of pull to make it longer, but you can shorten it some if that would make the gun fit you better.
zonie

 

[jtmattison]

The Lyman Great Plains Rifle kit is easy and you get a nice shooting rifle. Mine took minimal sanding/shaping and the inletting was 100% complete from the box. The metal parts were slightly rough and took a little grinding/sanding to finish. I only took about 20 hours to build mine.

HD

 

[Dane]

16gauge,

The term "kit" is a bit misleading. This is NOT a set of pre-inlet parts that just "snap" together. Rather, a box of parts, some of which are 90 to 95% inlet. As Zonie said, before you attempt this, make sure you read some good books on construction of the longrifle. Make sure you have the skills and tools to undertake this. Also, a basic knowledge of the architecture of the "school" of rifle you intend to build.

Most "kit" makers use a generic stock that can be used for several differenct styles of guns. If a guy doesn't know the architecture of the gun he intends to build, it won't end up looking anything at all like the original.

If you decide to go ahead and build, start with a Chamber's kit. Architecture is authentic and already there. Best locks in the business, and just downright great people to deal with. If you do your job, you will have an authentic, heirloom when you're finished. They are a little pricey, but as in everything else, you get what you pay for.

IMHO :thumbsup:

 

[LFC]

There seem to be, basically, two kinds of kits. There's the CVA/Traditions/Lyman kind, where the pieces all more or less fit together, and the majority of your work is just in making the fit precise and polishing/finishing parts, and then there are the Track of the Wolf type, which involve a lot more work.

One thing I'd think about, in considering "this kit versus that kit versus preassembled", is how much time you will enjoy devoting to the project. If you're a real craftsman type who will love turning what's sort of a rifle-stock-shaped block of wood and a pipe into a work-of-art rifle, and don't mind spending quite a lot of time at it, you'll probably gravitate toward the more-involved-construction type of kit. If you've got lots of other demands on your time, and/or are more interested in just paying less money than you would for the preassembled gun, you might want to look harder at CVA/Traditions/Lyman type kits. For me, I was very close to ordering a Lyman kit, but then realized that even with that less-craftsmanship-involved project, the busy weekends my family has at this stage of life would mean that my time spent putting it together would bring great displeasure from my wife (and, maybe, kids--though the latter would have been interested in helping build it--at least the less-tedious parts of the building). I probably wouldn't have had an actually shootable gun by New Year's. I hope to assemble a kit someday, but that may have to wait a few years--maybe 'til the last little one is out of diapers and the lawn gets mowed more than once every 18 months. :wink:

 

[BrownBear]

If you want a generic "hawken" style, it's hard not to recommend the Lyman for a first build. They're pretty straight forward, but with enough extra wood to allow you to do some custom work if you want. Walnut stocks so you don't have to mess with trying to darken maple or whatever other kind of "hardwood" appears in the less expensive kits.

My hunting pard and I each built a Lyman last winter, and from looking at the finished guns you'd be hard pressed to guess they started out the same. We went our own ways on architecture and finish, but both got exactly what we wanted. No huge headaches, but we did have to compare notes and scratch heads at several points along the way. It really helped to have my factory Lyman on hand for comparison.

Best of all, they both shoot really well. Though each of us have other MLs in our houses, we're determined to drop deer with the ones we built. Fun as they have been to shoot up till now, they won't be really "broken in" till they draw blood.

Be forewarned, however. The last coat of finish will hardly be dry and you'll be searching for the next one to build. If building isn't an addiction, I don't know what is.

 

[grey8833]

16 Gauge:

First the basic decision. As Comus pointed out, you have a choice here and it depends on what you want as an outcome. Is your basic desire to learn to build a gun or to shoot a gun? If you want to shoot a gun (90%) and have it unique to you (10%) then go with the factory unfininshed "kits". If you want to build a unique - hand it down to your children - gun (90%) and shoot it (10%) then go for the "pile of parts" kits > TOTW, Chambers, etc.
WARNING WARNING - if you go for the "pile of parts" kits, and you take the time (100 to 200 hours, - no kidding,spend the $ on tools, books and videos) you can get seriously addicted to building (yes - addicted is the correct word - been there, hooked bad - want a list of suffers - take a look at this forum. So the answer to your question is really a question, what do you want to do? Build or shoot? Mind the WARNING.

Mike F.

 

And the non factory kits(read parts set) have one important thing missing, and that is plans, and instructions. In most cases you can get diagrams/blueprints for some of the more common guns from Track, and MBS. But what you really want is one or more of the gunbuilding books, Alexanders "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" or Chuck Dixon's one on building the Longrifle. I would definetly be thinking about getting one of these first before you venture forward even with one of the commercial kits. There also some good DVD's out there by Chambers, and Pioneer press. that I would recommend. And you also have the Forum to help you "Get R Done.

Bill

If Wile E. Coyote had enough money to buy all that Acme junk, Why didn't he just buy dinner?

 

[16gauge]

Thanks to all for your input and candor. :thumbsup:

I realize that this isn't a 'quick fix' to getting a rifle, and that it will take much time and a fair amount of work. I bought Dixon's book about 5-6 years ago and have read and reread it several times, as well as highlighted certain parts. The reason I asked the question is that on Dixie gun works they describe some kits as 'beginners' kits and others as more difficult....I'm just wondering what they are basing their opinions on. I have made other accoutraments for myself (moccasins, knives, a beaded gun case, ect), so I figured that the next logical step would be to build the rifle. My profession sometimes leaves me with a fair amount of time on my hands while waiting for the pager to go off, so I figured instead of watching the **** tube, I could put it to better use doing something else......... :wink:
There is a black powder store about 50 miles away....maybe instead of getting a kit from TOTW, I will give them a visit and get the basics to get me started (barrel, stock, breech plug, lock, ect) and get the 'brass tacks' along the way as I make progress.
Again, thanks to all for your input......

 

[gacitizen]

Mike F is entirely correct, it is more addictive than copenhagen.

To start with nothing but a board and then 250 hours later you're smelling that smoke.... Next thing you know UPS is backing into the driveway with another box of parts. Hoo Boy!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I bought a pre carved stock. Im sure glad I did.
Even with an veteran builder helping me, Id been lost starting with a block of wood.

As far as kits go.

I had two choices, A Jim Chambers kit, or piece a kit together from Muzzle loader Supply.

Becuase Chambers didnt have the barrel I wanted, I bought parts and made it all fit. The old timer about had a fit when I heated up the trigger housing and bent it to comform to the wood.
"kinda fit" dont work with me.

The folks are MLS are nice folks, over sold me some stuff, got some wrong stuff too.

Ive got the one rifle to last the rest of my days. If I ever did make another, it would be a Chambers kit.

When I got my Chambers late ketland lock from MLS the cock screw was bent. I called Chambers, 3 days later one was in my mailbox.

One thing about the wood I mine is made from. The ole timer who helped me hates black walnut, heck all walnut. He has two rifles in his shop, no one will by, walnut stocks.

After we finshed mine, he told me that MLS sold me a way better hunk of wood, than he had ever seen before.

Build by someone who dont know squat about building flintlocks

 

[khwils]

I believe he's asking what "type" of rifle is easiest to make as Dixie rates the kit difficulty in their catalog. I believe the Trade Gun type kits are reported to be the easiest followed by the poor boy mountain types. The Lehigh and Hawken Kits being the hardest due to several intricate architectural features. Is this what you are asking?