Ruger Old Army

[Dickydalton]

Even the furniture is getting loud here...

 

[M. De Land]

Oddly enough, the 44Mag would be easy enough if it weren't for the bore. Walt and I have discussed it a few times but with the bore already .452" it's easier to stay with 45C /45acp. So, a close tolerance platform that won't beat itself up is the best setup.

The '60 may be a "super shooter" with a light bullet in the 24K/25K psi range for a max but there's plenty of room for some heavyweight bullets with less pressure too so there's lots of possibilities for the belt gun!!

The Dragoon though is a really nice platform as well for a hunting revolver and has the same ability to throw some nice sized trash cans down range or lighter weight, flat flying long range zippers!! Probably in the 26/27K range . . . maybe more . . . we'll just have to see.W

Who needs a 44 Mag case, your 45 Colt case will handle 30 K with no problem. It's the arbor that won't handle the strain.

 

[nick_1]

Really it's the sights that suck.

 

[French Colonial]

Who needs a 44 Mag case, your 45 Colt case will handle 30 K with no problem. It's the arbor that won't handle the strain.

A 45 LC loaded hot will outperform a 44 mag no matter how the 44 is loaded. Use any measurement you like the 45 LC is the go-to cartridge for performance, at least against the 44.

 

[45D]

Really it's the sights that suck.

They can be changed of course but I've done work on a Walker with a Red Dot sight on it.

Mike

 

[45D]

Well, it IS strictly for hunting.

 

[nick_1]

just finished a back yard session with my 1858 stock sights. 200g conical. off the back steps first shot hit a 35yrd 5" plate then two 5" plates at 25yrds and one six inch plate @ 40yrds and two shots on paper @ 50 yrds one of which was a bullseye.. that 200g conical hits the steel harder than my .357 mag. with 158g soft points. I have an eotech and its awesome but it's mounted on a DPMS

 

[Smokerr]

Really it's the sights that suck.

I fixed mine and I am no 45D!

I can solder and run a Dremell. ROA has by far the best sights, 47 Walker is good now, the Model 57 not so much.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

They can be changed of course but I've done work on a Walker with a Red Dot sight on it.
View attachment 364636

Mike

wow I've never ever seen that before. I love that. now I believe I could actually hit something with that!!!! I know it ain't period correct but I'm not much into all that. I'm glad people are interested in period correct.Have no problem with that at all.But I like to hit what I shoot at too.Thank you MIKE for showing this.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

Well, it IS strictly for hunting.

lol. got my mouth to watering and my heart to skipping. thanks bud

 

[cynthialee]

if you fellas are going to keep arguing in circles y'all are gonna start to look silly

 

[Smokerr]

They used Blackhawks, not Redhawks and they used them standard to start and later remanufactured the frames to take even more powerful cartridges and they never used an open top Dragoon or Walker or a redesign or remanufacture of any such. Later Casull helped in founding Freedom arms so I guess he was a gun manufacturer. Linebaugh used the Blackhawk with special made 5 shot cylinders. Get your facts straight.

I had to be spot on accurate for my work, so now I can relax, Blackhawk, Redhawsk, tomatoe tomato, potato potaeato, whatever.

Casull was not originally a gun guy and he had no expertise in it, so maybe he brings the cartridge and whoever else the gun stuff. Shrug. It was a Cartridge first regardless. Keith was not a gun mfg guy either.

You miss the point. There never was an open top effort to meet 44 Mag levels (well until 45D!).

What we do know is that a top strap type can be beefed up to the horrid 500 S&W (yes Horrid, I had the misfortune to be next to one at the range, even the guys buddy would not shoot the danged thing).

Of course they took the Top Strap way out. They had the experience of design and materials. They wanted to sell guns not prove you could make an open top work. They only would have gone to Open Top if a closed top could not be made to work. If you have any smarts you are not going to spend that kind of money for a restricted platform for what they wanted (swing out cylinder) unless that had to, reality of S&W.

Black Powder guy blew up a 58 Remington with smokeless, weakness in the cylinder from what I can tell. You want to bet that a S&W 500 cylinder is made of really good stuff and metal treatment? While barrels and frames probably are all to the same the same SA spec for the Italiain makers, cylinders do not have to be, they are stand alone and you can easily use lower spec metal.

Probe the edges and all guns will fail someplace. Yes even Open Top. 45D does not say they are indestructible, nor that they are S&W 500, but they are far more capable in modern variant than Urban Legend would lead you to believe. Unmentionable cylinder makers are going to go steps beyond because its an all too easy platform to abuse.

And as an aside, I got some 45LC to run through the Howell. 1000 fps, so much for labeled as Cowboy load! Not everyone has access to an accurate Chronograph. And yes they were shot side by side with a 44 special from same mfg labeled Cowboy load and they were 850 fps (more or less Cowboy load FPS). Powder looks a lot like the old AL-8

If reports are correct (sometimes there is an axe to grind or other reasons why things fail like wrong loading of Concials) then the 47 Walker Cylinders had a weakness and did fail.

Fix that and you then find the next area. Kind of like the V Tail Bonanza. The tails began to break off, so they reinforce that, which then lead to breaking off further forward. Beef up the whole rear and it stopped. Of course they found a T tail was lower cost so that was the mfg solution.

In short, hats off to 45D for the enlightenment and a thumbs down for those who diss the work and what he has revealed about the Open Top design. Sour grapes come to mind.

 

[French Colonial]

I had to be spot on accurate for my work, so now I can relax, Blackhawk, Redhawsk, tomatoe tomato, potato potaeato,

No... not the same, are you really that dense

Casull was not originally a gun guy and he had no expertise in it, so maybe he brings the cartridge and whoever else the gun stuff. Shrug. It was a Cartridge first regardless

How could the cartridge be before Casull when Casull was the one who developed it?
You don't know anything about the guy do you.

In short, hats off to 45D for the enlightenment and a thumbs down for those who diss the work and what he has revealed about the Open Top design. Sour grapes come to mind.

I don't diss his work, although I have him on ignore. The reason being is his insistence that the open top is a stronger design which is patently ridiculous. There are numerous examples in other fields where "C" shaped presses etc. are not as strong as "O" frames.

Once again, when Casull and his partners developed Freedom arms they could have used an open top if it was stronger but they knew better. Beef up the open top all you want, I like them but they will never do what a top strap will do.

And since you are being obstinate I will let you join 45D in the old ignore lock box.

Edit......, The more I think about it I realize that some of you have not done very much reloading especially for heavy hitting large bore handgun cartridges, do some more research.

 

[Bad Karma]

Wow… sure is getting deep around here.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

Wow… sure is getting deep around here.

dang. u said that right. honestly I don't know much about this stuff. I like to keep it simple because I'm simple lol. but if I want any of my black powder revolvers to be worked on I know I will be asking 45D. same as if I have a question about them I'm asking him too.ive been reading a lot on here and looks like to me that he would be to whom I ask. all I'm going say

 

[Dickydalton]

That furniture is getting pretty nasty and arrogant!
Oops, modified that remark as some people do get preference on here.

 

[Dude]

According to Wiki, Richard Casul, gunsmith, developed wildcat cartridges for the 45Colt looking for 2,000 feet/sec. He, along with two other men, in 1958 developed the 454 Casul. Freedom Arms in 1983 introduced a five shot revolver for the round.

I really don't understand the bitterness expressed towards 45D - then again, people do tend to get attached to their pet theories, rather than truth and facts.