Gunsmith For Jug Choke

[xbr]

I'm going to have my 12ga. T/C New Englander jug choked. Does anyone have a recommendation for a reliable gunsmith to do the work?

 

[roundball]

I'm going to have my 12ga. T/C New Englander jug choked. Does anyone have a recommendation for a reliable gunsmith to do the work?

I've had two .62cal GM Flint smoothbore barrels done by Lowell Tennyson and they are outstanding.

The GM barrels have thick strong steel walls...I don't know if the walls of yours are thick enough...and for Lowell to know he'll ask you that when you call him so you should precisely measure the wall thickness before you call.

Lowell Tennyson
209 E Lotte St.
Blue Grass IA. 52726
563-381-3711
[email protected]

 

[Croppy Boy]

I had my 12 gauge jug choked by Lowell Tennyson, I think he's in Ohio, his address is [email protected]
I had mine full choked which gives a good tight pattern out to 45 yards. I patterned it the other day on half an A4 sheet at 40 yards, it took 22 hits of no. 5 shot.
The load I was using was 80 grains of 2F, an over powder card, one lubed felt wad, two over shot cards 1 1/4 oz. no. 5 shot and an over shot card. This may sound a bit complicated but it gives good patterns.

Roll on the fine summer evenings when Mr. Bunny will be out sunning himself. :thumbsup:

 

[mazo kid]

This is good information; thanks for sharing. Is Mr. Tennyson reasonable for the work he does? Although if he does good work, it should be worth it! Emery

 

[Dane]

Ed Hamberg
Alton, IL

e-mail [email protected]

$50 plus shipping, can do improved, modified, or full choke.

 

[roundball]

This is good information; thanks for sharing. Is Mr. Tennyson reasonable for the work he does? Although if he does good work, it should be worth it! Emery

Mine were $65 each + shipping...one last year, and one the year before that

 

[Bert]

Does the jub choke effect round ball accuracy?

 

[roundball]

This is good information; thanks for sharing. Is Mr. Tennyson reasonable for the work he does? Although if he does good work, it should be worth it! Emery

Both my .62's were $65 each + shipping...one last year, and one the year before that.

Had him make one Full for turkey, the other halfway between I.C. & Mod...what I call Imporoved Cylinder PLUS...for crows, doves, etc

 

[paulvallandigham]

Bert: Yes, the Jug choke affects round ball accuracy. If you are going to choke a barrel, you need to dedicate it to use with shot only.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Bert: Yes, the Jug choke affects round ball accuracy. If you are going to choke a barrel, you need to dedicate it to use with shot only.

This isn't what my customers tell me.

 

[roundball]

Does the jub choke effect round ball accuracy?

Prior to the jug choking they'd all stay inside a 3" aim point sticker at 50yds using 80grns Goex 3F, .015" patch, and .600" ball.

With the choke the group size doubled...BUT...it wasn't a fair test as I only tried a few shots and didn't experiment with any variables to see if it would tighten back up...

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Bert: Yes, the Jug choke affects round ball accuracy. If you are going to choke a barrel, you need to dedicate it to use with shot only.

Can you back up that emphatic statement with more meat than a couple of indvidual's limited tests that you have read about here. Any first hand experience to add?

 

[paulvallandigham]

No. I have no personal experience, but have talked to half a dozen friends who do, who are fighting to come up with a way to shoot RBs the way they shot before the guns were choked. It seems the less the amount of choke, the better the balls group. Its the guys with the full choke barrels that are having the most problems with shooting RBs as accurately as they did before they jug choked the barrels. This seems to match what I have read here.

I also know two different gunmakers/smiths, who build ML guns working on how to solve the problem. The suggestion I made last year to use enough cushion wads to span the length of the jug choke came from my discussions with them. In fact, such " fillers " are found in the large British African Rifle cartridges originally designed for Black Powder loads, but now loaded with smokeless powder ( think Nitro Express rifles cartridges, like the .450, .500, .577, and .600), to fill the casings so there is no gap between the hefty powder charges and the bullets.

The problem with this method to solve the jug choke problem is what happens to the cloth patching around the ball when its in that jug area. If it peels back, you may have one side of the patch between the barrel and the ball, but the other side might be bare, with the outside edges of the patch wedged behind and between the curve of the round ball and the cushion wad behind it.

It may be that this problem can be solved. It would be very dishonest to tell him there won't be any change in his group size if he jug chokes the gun, when our current experiences show that there is.

Roundball may only have tried one or two things to get Round balls to shoot well out of his full choked, jug choked barrel, but he is a very consciencious shooter, shoots every week, rain or shine, and knows his T/C rifles and smoothies. I am sure if he, or anyone else, finds a way to get as good accuracy shooting RBs out of a jug choked barrel, we will hear about it here, first.

 

[rabjr]

My solution to this problem was rather simple. Two smoothbores...one for ball and one jug choked for shot. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Swamp Rat: You sound like my gunmaker! :grin:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

No. I have no personal experience, ......... It seems the less the amount of choke, the better the balls group. Its the guys with the full choke barrels that are having the most problems

I have talked with as many people at my club who say they have not found any less in performance when choked in a constriction within modern tolerances for slug shooting but that would be heresay in court would'nt it? :rotf:

It's a slug in a smoothbored shotgun. As many as I have owned or worked on in the shop, I have not found even one modern full choked barrel that would shoot slugs very good. Less choke, as a general rule will allow for better slug shooting.

I/C seems to do well on most of my smooth modern barrels for slugs though and that is the choke of choice for law enforcement. Anything up to light mod. has a good chance of producing a pretty good pattern but all barrels are as different as a fingerprint.

A muzzleloader has many more options to tweak the load for optimum performance than a modern gun but expecting a tight choked gun to perform better than even our modern standards is a tall order.

When I need more accurate performance than smooth barrel slug expectations, I grab a rifle gun just like my forefathers. :thumbsup:

 

[Trapper]

I jug choked my sweet 16 by .008 and am in the modified choke area.It'll throw 132 #5 pellet (1 1/16thoz)shot into a 20 inch circle at 25 yrds. The round balls with a patch will print 3 inch groups at 50 yrds, now here's the weird part. One day I forgot to patch the round ball and shot it. I only printed 2 inches lower put still in the black at 50 yrds. Boy did that suprise me, so I did it again and it printed right next to the last one I shot. I shot it for a group and it didn't print groups and worse that the patched balls just lower.I'm not sure what I did choking it myself but BOY DID I GET LUCKY.Just my 2 cents worth.
Trapper

 

[roundball]

Just to clarify the difference between jug chokes and modern chokes.

The issue with tight modern chokes affecting slug accuracy is the "constriction" which is how modern chokes work...subsequently the more open a modern choke is the less constriction it has and therefore has less effect on slug accuracy.

However, a barrel Jug Choked Full is actually not constricted at all...the primary component of a Jug Choke is actually an expansion chamber that is 'larger' in diameter than the bore.
Then the expansion chamber dimension gradually steps back down to the original bore size an inch prior to muzzle exit...there is no actual constriction in a Jug Choked barrel that is tighter than the original bore size to begin with.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Trapper: Did you have leading as a problem in the barrel as the result of not patching the ball? Did you have any kind of OP Wad to seal the powder gases behind the ball? How did you keep the ball from moving in the barrel after you put it in the barrel?

I am sure that some barrels are more accurate shooting a round ball than others, just from my own experiences. A 3 inch Group at 50 yards would not be considered " bad " for most people. The best group a jugged choke barrel is reported as firing to me is 7 inch at 50 yards. That is quite a bit different.

As for the Captain's remarks, moders slugs are a different breed, and Round Ball is correct about the effect of modern chokes being different than that of a jug choke. I have a modern slug barrel that will shoot Winchester foster slugs into one hole at 50 yards, all day long, using a rest and the iron sights on the gun. But, the barrel did not do that from the factory. I relieved the throat of the barrel( that area just ahead of the chamber) using a tapered reamer, elongating the shoulder from about 1/2" to 3 inches, and then polished it. It makes that much of a difference. The factory barrel would produce 4-5 inch 5-shot groups off a rest. The groups are half that now, and I can do even better when I work at it.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

All great information, why because I was handed a 16 gauge Ultra mag (flint smooth bore) and I have a 56 cal. T/C smooth bore. Ultra mag was given to me by a friend that is not into blackpowder. It was a little rough but it cleaned up real good.I had Ed and Scott Cain look it over and picked up some wads and over shot cards today. I will let you know how things work out when I can get to the range. :thumbsup: