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Thanks all of you for the constructive criticism. I do not take it as an attack, I actually really appreciate it!

Crewdawg445 said:
You'd be better off at Burger King.

If I were passionate about flipping burgers, then I would be at McDonald's or Burger King. :haha:

Mountain Dewd, you made a really good point, I would never want to make this into a huge business per se, but just making a few rifles or smoothies a year and making just a little bit of extra dough.

Feel free to keep the constructive criticism coming, don't worry I won't "take it as an attack" I really want to learn more from all of you, and I really appreciate all the help!
 
The flat place behind your lock panel looks a little odd.

That said;

My first duck decoy looked like I chopped it out with a hatchet, my last looked like it could fly away. Lots of studying duck anatomy in between the first and last.

My first bow looked like a boat paddle and had so much hand shock it would jar your toenails lose. Some of my last took second and third in the IBO World Championships, again lots of study through the years.

On your next kit look at pictures of finished guns by guys who turn out a quality product and copy the pictures.
 
Another thing;

The guy I mentioned ou Utube freehanded his cuts on a rifle, his stock moldings looked like a wavy snake.

Plan your cuts, draw lots of lines and erase them and start over if they don't look right. Don't attack and area with a file unless you have a game plan for the finished product.
 
Personally I think muzzleloader popularity is on the rise and will continue to do so.....
That said; With Thompson Center leaving the market, a void has been created.

A void begging to be filled.....
 
I build ml's because I love it. I sell what I make for not much more than I spent. But I make enough to buy another parts set. And I'm retired so I have an income. I have invested lots of money on parts sets, I have enough to build 4 more guns.
Get a job, buy parts or kits as you go along, and don't dream that you can make a fortune-yet.
 
First of all, you really ARE only 15. Lots of guys here SAY they'tr 15 (and were once) but are really much much older than that, even in to their 80's. You're doing what you're doing NOW primarily for the education, and your recent posts say as much. In that, you are to be commended. So keep those first few builds simple, and, as you have from a kit. Very soon you'll be able to go in to the scratch built (or parts set)arena.

An analogy to that would be building plastic or wooden models from kits. Often the vintage boxed kits sell for way more than an assembled one from years ago. When you get in to scratch building is when models sell for real money. Why? because pretty much anyone can assemble a kit. It takes someone with real knowledge to design and make one that isn't otherwise available off the shelf. But everybody that does scratch building (think architectural models here) started off with kits.

Once you get some more experience, you will become your own worst critic, so keeping your early work around will serve to remind you of your earlier mistakes, and as importantly, the REASONS you made the mistakes you made. You're gaining experience now that will doubtlessly translate to better and better work down the road, in many pursuits. Experience and knowledge is something you can't buy,and can never be taken away from you. Just make sure you remember the lessons.
 
I am impressed with what you made at age 15.

How could you make it better; buy the plans for Tracks Hawkins rifle ($7) and make the lines of Lyman look as much like the Hawkins in profile and shaping as you can. Then your build will be head and shoulders above what others produce with the same kit.

There several examples of some beautiful rifles made from Lyman kits on this site if you search. There is way too much wood in the wrong places on a kit gun.
 
I build because I love every aspect of the craftsmanship and historical backgrounds of muzzleloading. I'm currently in the works of starting a build for a fellow rendezvous friend, not for money but because I enjoy the pleasure of building and to see him happy.

I personally would never do it for the money. I don't care what it is, when money is involved it's about the money, your prize the bottom dollar which is your motivation, period... You certainly may love it, but you must get paid...

When you do something for free without money involved, it'll show you real fast how much dedication you have.
 
Yes sir, we shall be hashing out the details here in WV in the next few weeks by the fire!!!... Oh wait... someone won't BE THERE!

He really loved my last smoothie I built so I believe he wants to go that route.

Payment... bacon, he makes some awesome bacon for breakfast! Lol
 
And you also have to think about that little thing called liability in case something happens.If some gets hurt using the gun you built.Sell it as a used gun not a new gun.And have them sign paper work that youre not responsible if they blow themselves up.
 
Well of course, that's a finer detail to the bigger picture. In today's ridiculous sue all world it is intended an important one... For the sake of argument that's one reason I DO NOT build or sell to people I have no ties with. It's rather simple... anything pertaining to firearms always has "liability " attached to it.

The level of intelligence I've witnessed with some people owning and operating firearms makes me glad I'm out of the business.
 
Most in today's world are into the... must I say... inlines... :doh: :shocked2:

Head on down to your local bass pro, cabeals or even wally world were you can find a package deal for under $150.00. That's whats popular, the price and being able to lob a big bullet for little to nothing.

Most will have no interest in our unreliable, faulty ignition, inaccurate dinosaur rifles. :shake:
 
I love love love this new In Line Craze,,don't hang up, or quit reading, My wife and I have 5 of the "old" style,it sure dropped the prices for the traditional rifles.Some gun shows reflect the price difference...Especially right after Muzzle loading hunting season,almost beg you to buy...
 
Oh I absolutely agree they do. I personally have never shot or handled an inline, nor do I have any intention of ever doing so.

Personally when discussing the sport of muzzle loading with others I'm the odd ball, IMO an inline doesn't qualify as true muzzle loading... Complete lack of historical significance all for the glory of owning the top of the line deal for shooting that trophy buck...

"Well it's easier to load and far more accurate"

Easier to load? I'll buy that, but I'd rather have experience loading a REAL front stuffer.

More accurate?
Possibly... however mine will allow me to take any game just as effectively and accurately as that carbon special cryogenic barrel with a heatseeking 10000x zoom wonder scope at half the price. Also it's custom built with my own two hands and I have the skill to effectively shoot it as many lack.

Okay that's my rant for the day, I'm sorry it started out wrong anyways because I spilled my pot of coffee... :slap:

As previously mentioned, I agree modern back stuffers or whatever they are have led to a price drop on traditional styles, I've certainly seen that at a few shows as well in my area.
 
Bottom line, get the best education and job you can, so you can afford to marry and have kids, if you want. Then in your spare time; learn more things on gun building, collect your tools as you can and fully develop your skills. You will have a LOT more fun doing it this way.

AFTER the kids are grown or you retire from a good job, then you will be much better shape to try it as a business and enjoy it, because you won't HAVE to do it and it usually won't become such a chore.

Gus
 
To argue the other side. Ever successful gun maker started somewhere. I'm still kicking myself for letting people talk me out of starting my own business. Don't know if I would have made it work but now I'll never know. There will always be a reason to not take a risk and plenty of people around to tell you you can't. I say if that's what you want go for it. Talk to people that have done it or are still doing it. My advice give Allen Martin a call he started before he was 30 and he is making a living just building flintlocks. He loves talking to people and will probably atleast point you in the right direction.
 
shotgunner87 said:
To argue the other side. Ever successful gun maker started somewhere. I'm still kicking myself for letting people talk me out of starting my own business. Don't know if I would have made it work but now I'll never know. There will always be a reason to not take a risk and plenty of people around to tell you you can't. I say if that's what you want go for it. Talk to people that have done it or are still doing it. My advice give Allen Martin a call he started before he was 30 and he is making a living just building flintlocks. He loves talking to people and will probably atleast point you in the right direction.

Actually, my suggestion/argument comes from most every successful businessman I have known in the gun business all over the country since the 1970's and that includes both ML and Modern gunsmiths. The only exceptions to this were either people who were raised in the business by family and took over the family business, OR those who got full gunsmith training, worked at a gun factory to make a living and got their tools and equipment gathered over a few years while they established their reputation - before they went out on their own. That way, they got customers who could afford to pay them a somewhat decent wage to do the work.

The interesting thing, at least to me, is that things really have not changed all that much in the gun business from the 18th century to today, though the apprenticeships were longer back then and they got almost no money in hand while the apprenticeship went on. (The idea was their work paid the Master of the Shop for training the Apprentice.)

Once the Apprentice became a Journeyman, he could stay and work at his Master's Shop or go out his own. Those who did go out on their own often went to the frontier, BUT their ledger account books show they made their "bread and butter money" by doing repairs and quite a lot of work like blacksmithing, rather than gun building.

The Journeymen who stayed at their Master's Shop often did so for many years before they gathered the tools and money to go out on their own. Sometimes they took over the business when their Master died, or at least ran the shop for their Master's Widow. A rather large percentage of Journeymen remained so for most of their career, until the death of their Master forced them to go elsewhere for employment.

Though some exceptionally gifted Artisans back in the day made VERY good money building guns, most gunsmiths supplanted their income by farming and other work. There were also those who made their real money in either government contractor work or by making large quantities of very basic rifles/guns like Leman and Deringer.

Gus
 
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