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half cock vs hammer down..I was wrong

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a few days ago, on a post somewhere else that I can't now find, I said I carried my hammer down on a cap 'cause I thought it likely that a half cocked hammer could snag on brush and fall hard enough to set off a cap...someone suggested I try it and see. Well, I did...the hammers just fall back to half cock..so, I'm carrying that way from no on..Hank
 
hank said:
a few days ago, on a post somewhere else that I can't now find, I said I carried my hammer down on a cap 'cause I thought it likely that a half cocked hammer could snag on brush and fall hard enough to set off a cap...someone suggested I try it and see. Well, I did...the hammers just fall back to half cock..so, I'm carrying that way from no on..Hank

here is the thread you seeked but found not...
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/187873[/url]/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hank said:
a few days ago, on a post somewhere else that I can't now find, I said I carried my hammer down on a cap 'cause I thought it likely that a half cocked hammer could snag on brush and fall hard enough to set off a cap...someone suggested I try it and see. Well, I did...the hammers just fall back to half cock..so, I'm carrying that way from no on..Hank

Actually I'm glad to hear that for safey's sake...when I read that practice from several people, I didn't personally think it was very safe but didn't want to risk starting controversy.
:thumbsup:

In my opinion only, if it's just resting on the cap, a limb could catch and lift the hammer just short of the half cock notch and then it slips back down with enough force to fire the cap.

And for mine, I added those brass devices called "Kap Kovers" on my caplocks...a snug weatherproof seal over the nipple which also serves as a mechanical safety block...same principle as a Hammer Stall on a Flintlock.
 
Another disadvantage of this would be two clicks (sear passing half-cock and engaging the full-cock notch) opposed to one (engaging the full-cock notch only)...

Why make more noise than necessary when hunting???
 
Because some people believe that resting the hammer on the cap prevents an impact from setting of the cap. They state that the half cock notch can fail causing a gun to fire. If you couple the thin nature of some half cock notches with the NPS requirement that we overstress these parts by hanging the gun by the trigger while on half cock to demonstrate that they have not yet failed, you have a bad mix. The NPS policy is actually contributing to future failure of guns in my opinion.

On the other hand, I do see that with the hammer down, a branch might catch the hammer slightly and let it fall back onto a cap hard enough to fire.

Maybe no perfect answer exists.

I also used a cap cover and even used a fired .22 shell to protect the cap for a while.

CS
 
CrackStock said:
Maybe no perfect answer exists.

It does, do not cap until you are ready to fire...

This is not really practical in a fast hunting condition, like upland birds for example...

But it would work while still hunting for deer...

Have the hammer down on a thick pad of leather to seal the nipple, when you see your target, cock the gun, remove the leather and cap the nipple and ready yourself for the shot...
 
My brother-in-law carries in the woods with hammer resting on the cap. I trust him implicitly -- I won't hunt with anyone I don't -- but on our second day out he slipped on a hillside and dropped his rifle. It didn't discharge, but I'm uneasy, to say the least, as to how hard (or light) a blow it would take to explode the cap.

I carry my flinter primed and at halfcock when I'm hunting -- unprimed, preferably unloaded, hammer down, any other time. The native tribes here in the Northwest Territory seem to have lost the desire to continue fighting, so there's no need to be ready to shoot on an instant's notice unless a whitetail's involved.
 
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm new to muzzleloading. What is the "NPS policy?"
 
I have at times put a thick piece of leather between the cap and the hammer and carried it that way,I nevr fell or tested it but I know several people who do this and have had no bad incident.
 
Some of my old guns, do not have a 1/2 cock. Never did have one either. For the heck if it, I placed the hammer down on the cap and tried with all my might to beat the hammer on to the RWS cap and make it go off. Couldn't make it happen. I also tried to see how much preasure it would take with a branch to move the hammer back, allowing it to fall and discharge the gun. Again , the brush or limb will move before the hammer moves. If the branch is big enough not to move it is called a tree and I am probably walking around it.Now this is not saying it can't happen, but muzzle control is the safety that is most important. I would never trust a sear or a tumbler to be my safety.
 
Dave --

Well said. While I've never experimented with trying to set a cap off -- or break a half-cock notch -- by "accident", bottom line is that a gun that isn't pointed at me when it goes off can't put a ball through me. Hence my reference to having to trust someone completely and totally before I walk the woods with them. I've walked with the other kind and, believe me, sooner or later it gets ugly.
 
Musketman,

I agree that your suggestion to cap only before firing is safest. You are also right that it is not a realistic method for some hunting situations. Squirrels or other small game need a state of readiness that precludes capping only at the time of firing. One must just be careful. It helps that people are generally not moving through thicket at these times. In that case, I use the hammer down on the cap for these and press the trigger to come to fullcock silently.

I have also used various protective means of covering caps with my cap locks.

I am not firm in my opinion as to the best policy here and wish to hear the thoughts and experiences of others.

Mongrel,

Try to set off a cap with the hammer down and advise us of the result. You might be surprised.

Tamara,

The Park Service insists that re-enactors dangle their ML guns by the trigger while set at half cock to demonstrate that the half cock notch is working. It is commonly termed the NPS salute and we choose the middle finger for it. :blah: Some of us believe that this is foolish as it over stresses the half cock notch on the tumbler. We believe that they are increasing the liklihood of failure of the part.

Dave K

I believe the half cock notch to be a hold over from the flintlock days when this feature was necessary for loading purposes and acted as a safety -- sort of. I think that it is not really needed on percussion guns.

CS
 
CS, I agree on the carry over from flint. Now on old guns that I had to set new hammers on, the 1/2 cock notch is set, to only hold the hammer about 1/16" above the cap. This does two things, prevents the cap from falling off and also if the sear or tumbler, were to fail, the hammer does not have enough energy to fire the cap, at least on my guns.
 
Dave K said:
"...the 1/2 cock notch is set, to only hold the hammer about 1/16" above the cap. This does two things, prevents the cap from falling off and also if the sear or tumbler, were to fail, the hammer does not have enough energy to fire the cap, at least on my guns.
I wonder if TC had that in mind with their caplock design...all the TC caplocks I've ever owned had the hammer nose/cup stop barely above the cap when at half cock...so close, that you can't cap it that way...have to go to full cock to cap one...which I always thought created unnecessary risks...
:shocked2:
 
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