hand cast ball accuracy?

[tnlonghunter]

I've got to order stuff from TOTW so I figure I'll just order RB's at the same time. I've always shot Hornady swagged balls, but I figured I might try the hand-cast ones since they're a little cheaper. I don't cast my own, so I have no experience shooting them. Is there any reason to believe the swagged are more accurate than the hand cast, and therefore worth the extra money?

 

[catman]

I got a 1000 hand cast balls from Eddie May and did notice they did have a different point of impact, had to adjust my sights for a height up & down but not much. He's the man for balls for sure.

Eddie May
159 Ridley Road
Chatsworth, GA 30705
706-581-8225

1000 balls to your front door for $81 bucks

 

[hanshi]

I can't say I've been able to tell any difference when soft lead is used.

 

[nchawkeye]

I cast for both my .40 and .54 with a Rapine bag mold, I can't tell any difference...

If a hand cast ball is less round than a swaged then by the time you shoot it out of the barrel and it oblates then it has conformed to the barrel wall...With open sights, I don't believe you will be able to tell a difference in group size...

 

[nw_hunter]

I never noticed a difference! I get one on the paper once in a while, regardless of which one I'm using

 

[killer]

I started shooting my hand cast balls last week. They shot great, im useing a lee 2 cavity .490 mold, but the balls are mic. .495. Great accuracy in my lyman gpr flinter.

 

[cmdrted]

I've seen no differance between hand cast and swaged as long the balls weighed within 1 grain of each other. I've had hornady swaged in 50 cal have as much as 3 grains of differance from each other. My hand cast even with a small end cast swirl at the sprue plate were never more than 2 grains of each other. Most within .5 grains. I separate them into lots, for example .490s can be 176 grain 177 grain. I keep 176.0 to 179.9 in the 176 lot etc. anything in the 175 or 178 grain range gets thrown back.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I've been casting for about 25 years. The only difference is the price. You can cast a lot of balls for the price of one store bought box :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yup. You can pay for a good steel Lyman mold real quick with the savings. The slight extra weight of the sprue may change the point of impact a little, but that's easy to fix.

 

[MSW]

i agree: the cast ones aren't really all that much better or worse than swaged. the 'trick' (if you want to call it that) is consistency: for best results, you should have your balls as close to the same weight as you reasonably can.

what's reasonable? that's your call (after all, you're the one shooting them).

i've tried both, and can't really tell the difference, but then again, i'm not that great a marksman.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've seen no differance between hand cast and swaged as long the balls weighed within 1 grain of each other. I've had hornady swaged in 50 cal have as much as 3 grains of differance from each other. My hand cast even with a small end cast swirl at the sprue plate were never more than 2 grains of each other. Most within .5 grains. I separate them into lots, for example .490s can be 176 grain 177 grain. I keep 176.0 to 179.9 in the 176 lot etc. anything in the 175 or 178 grain range gets thrown back.

That's about the same system I use for my .530" balls. I weigh every cast ball and keep those that are +/- 0.4 gr as my hunting and target balls. Those heavier are thrown back to recast (as that has to be the mold didn't fully close and the'd be out of round) and the balls just slightly light .4 to 1.0 gr light go for plinking. All else is recast. The reason for the .4 gr is that the swing needle on my RCBS scale shows that as 1/2 way off balance within the "window" It bottoms out at 1.0 gr light.

I use the same system for .490", though the weighs are a tad different it works out statistically the same.

Doing this I see no difference in accuracy between "store bought" swaged balls and my cast balls.

 

[R.M.]

Common sense tells us that swagged should be better than cast. It also tells us that weighing cast balls and culling out the odd ones would be a good thing to do. Well, in my experience, it ain't so. I've found that taking the time to weigh my balls is a waste of time. It just didn't improve my shooting any. Obviously, others have had differing results. You're just going to have to develop your own way of doing things based on what you believe, and carry on.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have shot a lot of both and when I am shooting carefully cast balls, I can see no difference. To get good cast balls, you must have the lead at the right temperature, the mold at the right temperature and use a good technique when filling the mold. This will insure that the balls do not have caveties in them and are not misshapen. When I cast a batch of balls, I carefully cull the first several to make sure that the mold has reached the proper temperature and I cull any that do not look right. When I am casting nice round shiny balls, I am in the groove and I become a casting machine. Once the balls are cool, I like to put them into a rock tumbler and tumble them for an hour or so. Make sure that the inside of the tumbler is clean and contains no tumbling media tht could get imbeded into the outside of the balls. When I do this, they come out looking like dark ball bearings. The tumbling seems to even out the spru marks until they are no longer visable.

I also like to weigh about a hundred random balls to make sure that they are all the same weight. If I have been careful in my casting, they are spot on within a grain or two of each other. When you are shooting cast balls like this, they are every bit as good as the swaged balls.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm not match shooting, but I don't notice any difference in accuracy or POI between the two in 50 cal and larger. In 32 and 36 a longish sprue does add enough weight that POI changes and accuracy goes south if I don't get the sprue right on top when seating.

I've got both Lee and RCBS molds in 36 cal and both Lee and Lyman in 50. The sprue of the Lee 36 is much smaller- actually a flat on the ball rather than a little extra sticking up- and as a result the balls are much less finicky about loading than those from the RCBS. The sprue is also a flat right against the ball on the 50, though the sprue on the Lyman protrudes much less on the 50 than on the RCBS 36. Whether due to being shorter or relatively small compared to the larger mass of the 50, it's not nearly as sensitive.

 

[BenCoogle]

This is an old, old debate! I believe Daniel Boone thought Speer swaged balls were best while Davy Crockett preferred Hornady.

Ol' Simon Kenton did like his cast bullets though! :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I bought swaged ball for my .45, and now my .50 because I didn't want to buy the casting equipment needed to make my own. I didn't think I would shoot enough RB to justify that expense.

I have used both Hornady, and Speer swaged balls. Both companies make good products, but various LOTS of balls from both companies, over the years were less than desirable for accuracy. I have sorted them by weight and diameter, and have spent a lot of time shooting them off a bench rest.

Sorting both Swaged and Cast Balls produces better accuracy IF you are shooting off a bench rest at targets.

For general off-hand shooting, most shooters can't hold their sights on a target consistently enough to make use of that available accuracy, and sorting the balls by weight or diameter contributes nothing to their groups. These are the majority of MLing shooters, IMHO, and they do just fine shooting what they cast or buy, without worrying about sorting by weight or size.

So, to answer your question, you first have to tell us what kind of shooting are you planning to do. If you are going to be a bench rest target shooter, using an Aperture sight, and a globe front sight, to limit your sighting errors as much as possible, then sorting swaged balls by size and weight will MAKE A DIFFERENCE. How much difference will depend on the rifle you are shooting, the caliber, the quality of the barrel and rifling, and your abilities as a shooter.

If you are going to do mostly off-hand casual plinking and general target shooting at 25 and 50 yard targets at the local club shooting matches, then don't bother sorting the balls.

I know a man in my club who weighs more than 300 lbs., and stands about 6'3" tall, who shoots a .32 CVA rifle he originally bought for his youngest daughter to shoot, at club matches. He loads about 20 grains of powder behind that 62 grain RB, and wins most of the shooting matches against shooters who insist on competing with him shooting their .50, .54, and .58 caliber rifles, shooting hunting load.

I have noticed, and heard some grumbling about how little powder he used during a match, compared to what others use, and the fact that the little gun doesn't recoil at all compared to what they are shooting. Sometimes discovering the " Truth" all by yourself is the best education you will get. I haven't suggested to these guys that the .50 caliber guns will shoot very accurately with 27 grains of 3Fg, or that the .54 Caliber guns will shoot well with 35 grains of 3Fg, or that the .58 will shoot well with only 40 grains of 3Fg powder. If they think shooting a 25 yard target requires them to load 90 grains of 3Fg in that .58, well, who am I to argue with their " expertise?"

All I want is a chance to shoot in a " money " match with these guys. I can use the extra loot! :grin:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

He's going to need all 300 pounds to force that 62 grain ball down that .32 caliber bore because it will have a diameter of .345". The correct ball should weigh 45-47 grains. :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

Thanks, Russ. for Catching my mistake. I was thinking .36 and writing about .32 ! A senior moment in the making!! :grin: :bow:

 

[hanshi]

Life is just too short to spend it weighing balls. If they're obviously culls I'll throw them back. Random weighing on two occasions show them as close as swaged or even better. I tip my hat to those who can shoot well enough to tell a difference. I'm not in that class. :hatsoff:

 

[jtmattison]

I have shot a total of 100 swaged .530 balls. Then I started casting my own. No difference in accuracy that I could see. As long as the cast balls are consistent they are just as good as swaged.

HD