HANGFIRE!

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Hopefully somebody can tell me why I had a hangfire.

Last night I cleaned my rifle after shooting. This consisted of hot water followed by dry patches and, after I was 100% sure it was dry, lube.

The nipple etc got the same treatment.

Dry patches were run through to make sure I got any excess lube.

I loaded it up with 70gn FFg Pyrodex - I'd shot several loads of that stuff off yesterday and had no problems at all - in fact, it impressed me with its accuracy and consistency.

I made sure it was on half cock, stuck a feather in the nipple, and put it muzzle down.

Tonight I fired it. It went pop-BOOM. Just enough of a hangfire to let me know it was there. Follow through took care of any accuracy issues and I hit my mark.

However, I have to wonder about a couple things.

First, there are those who leave their rifles loaded all season, only decapping them. Do all these rifles really fire when there's a deer in the sights after being stored like this?

Second, Wild Bill Hickok has been a subject of historical interest to me. I'm aware that he shot out his pistols each evening, cleaned them, and loaded them before going to bed.

Granted, cap'n'ball revolvers are inline and probably don't need as much of a spark to set them off because of this. And those who kept their rifles loaded, did so with blackpowder, not Pyrodex.

Still, I have to wonder about the number of misfires.

Finally, I'm almost wondering if I should get a musket nipple for that CVA. It was suggested that I might want to if I could find one. What do you folks think? Would they really help that much with ignition after being stored loaded, and just help reliability in general? Or would it be a waste of money?

Thanks!

Josh

 

[Iche Iia]

The only time I have had a hang fire with my percussion rifle is when I forget to pop off a couple of caps before loading.I put the muzzle close to a blade of grass or leaf and fire of a cap or two. If it "sounds" good and I see the grass move, I know it's good to shoot.

It sounds as though you may have had a bit of oil left in the nipple or the drum.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Particularly when shooting any of the light, "fluffy" substitute powders, you need to slap the side of the barrel after pouring powder down, to move powder OVER and UNDER the nipple, whether the gun has a drum and nipple arrangement, or a Nock style patent breech, with a flash channel that leads from the base of the nipple over to the rear of the powder chamber, and through a small hole in the powder chamber to the powder charge. Pyrodex P( Pistol) is smaller in size than Pyrodex RS( rifle/shotgun). Use P powder in percussion guns with the Nock-style patent breeches. But, remember that you still need to slap the side of the barrel to move powder down that flash channel and under the nipple to prevent that hang fire.

Unless that flash channel is dried after your cleaning session, it may have water still in it, as may the stem of the nipple. It doesn't take much moisture down there to clog things up. Dry the flash channel with a pipe cleaner, OR flush the nipple and channel, and powder chamber out with alcohol before you load the next time. Give the rifle time for the alcohol to evaporate off.

 

[Zonie]

You may have had a piece of the feather still stuck in the nipple or, since your using Pyrodex maybe you are using standard #11 caps?

Personally, I don't think a musket nipple is a good answer to your problem.

The musket caps cost a lot more than #11 Magnum or RWS 1075+ caps, their harder to find and they often will interfere with the standard sized hammer on the guns that were not built specifically to use Musket nipples.

The RWS 1075+ or CCI #11 Magnum caps were designed to set off the substitute black powders like Pyrodex so I would try one of those before thinking about a Musket Cap.

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I use CCI Magnums.

It really probably was just a bit of grease in the channel. I always pop a cap before shooting, but didn't before loading.

I doubt the caps are corrosive, but didn't want to chance it. They used to be.

Are they still?

If I'm going to leave the rifle loaded overnight again, should I pop a cap before loading it?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[Blizzard of '93]

yes BP caps are corrosive. IMO you should remove the drum screw and use a pipe cleaner or similar to wipe the flash channel, make sure it is dry the old timers set their rifles by the fire until they were warm and then fired caps to ensure the pathway was clear.
paul v has it right per the loading procedure, alway whack the breech area a couple times to jar powder into the channel, my CVA .50's light off every time no delay when I do that.
you don't need musket caps if your preparation is right on.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

IMHO Musket Caps are just an excuse to remedy poor cleaning & storage techniques. The other posters have stated what needs done for the most part. I'll just add my 2 cents by saying to always store the rifle muzzle-down, with nothing in the bore, especially after cleaning & oiling. I use a piece of paper toweling to catch any excess oil from the muzzle, and the breech doesn't fill-up with oil and make "Pyrodex Crud" the next time you shoot the rifle.

I snap a single cap when I dry patch, and I snap at least 2 caps when a spit patch goes down the throat. If you always remember to do this, you shouldn't have any problems.

Dave

 

[Eterry]

I used to have some hangfires and lots of fail to fires with my first M/L, a 45 cal CVA. I found that if I snapped a few caps before I loaded it, ran a dry patch down the bore before loading, slapped the side of the barrel (on nipple side) and left it on half cock during loading most problems went away.

I know some are of the opinion that the hammer should be down during loading, but it always worked better for me if it was left at half cock, with no ill effects.

Oh yea, I also started leaving the rifle muzzle down after cleaning, for same reasons as mentioned.

Good luck,

ETerry

 

[doulos]

Years ago was the last time I used Pyrodex. And you know why? Because of hangfires. Every hang fire I ever had with a percussion rifle was with Pyrodex RS. How old is your pyrodex? It has a relatively short shelf life and seems to lose its oomph rather quick. I didnt have alot of them but enough not to trust the stuff for hunting. It got to the point I never would use it for hunting only real black and that was even with guns that arent allowed to be discussed here. The stuff certainly takes a back seat to real black. The only reason I used it was because there were less and less distributors of black powder in my area and I didnt know i could order it by bulk.
I cant remember a hangfire with a percussion rifle with real black.
Call Powder Inc and order some real black powder. If you dont shoot alot they will let you order as little as 5 lbs.

 

[Jan Borinski]

Hello,
I´m using Pyrodex RS in all of my rifles now for app.6 years with normal no.11 caps with out any problems.Never had a hangfire or any kind of problems.Just in my .50 GPR I had some troubles but just until I switched to another nipple than the original(guess at least that it was the original since it was a used one)
I tried some real black also,but surely i couldn`t tell any difference.. :idunno:
Real black for me here in europe is quite a nightmare to get,so I´ll stay with pyrodex for a while,thats for sure.Never got a problem to take it out hunting either..

 

[KentuckyMan]

There is a simple solution to your problem.

After cleaning your gun, fire one or two cap WITHOUT, and before you load your mind powder charge. What happens is that even after you lube your gun up, or even if you clean you gun there still might be oil, dirt, or even small amounts of rust blocking the flash point area of the drum.

Blasting a few caps break up any thing that might be blocking the main powder charge.

That's all I have to say. :2

 

[ldykeman]

I 100% agree with doulos. My hangfire problems disappeared when I went back to good old black powder. That said, there are a few thing that you can do to minimize the problem. I have a very old copy of the Hodgdon Pyrodex loading and use manual. I am typing this from memory, but some important point are (and some have already been mentioned):
First Pyrodex has a much higher ignition temperature than black powder, so a Hot Shot nipple is recommended. Also, it cannot be emphasized too much to keep the nipple, flash channel, and barrel clean and free of any oils or lubes. After making sure everything is clean, pop some caps to make sure before loading. When pouring powder in the barrel, tilt the gun to the flash channel side, and then rap the barrel a few times after pouring the Pyrodex down it. When ramming a ball home, make sure you have pressure on the powder. As I remember, the Pyrodex manual calls for some pressure on the powder. This should help some, but, I never completely cured the Pyrodex hangfire problem, especially when hunting in very cold weather. After a cold morning hunt, I would fire it to unload and always have a pronounced hangfire.
After I switched back to BP, I also switched back to a standard nipple. Hangfires gone! I dumped all my Pyrodex out on the ground during a rain.
Larry

 

[Little Wattsy]

.I put the muzzle close to a blade of grass or leaf and fire of a cap or two. If it "sounds" good and I see the grass move, I know it's good to shoot.

It sounds as though you may have had a bit of oil left in the nipple or the drum.

:thumbsup:

 

[Old Salt]

If you are concerned about corrosion when you snap a cap just put a patch on a cleaning jag and push it all the way to the breech with your loading rod. After you snap the cap pull out the patch and load up for the hunt.

If you are just shooting targets then just snap a cap and load.

Leo