Hangfires

[broknaero]

I have a custom Flintlock With a Getz barrel. I get a heck of a hangfire. Luckily it doesnt effect my accuracy much as its the first muzzle loader I have owned and I force myself to follow threw every shot.

Ive noticed I have a very small touch hole. It isnt removable. It will not take many touch hole picks except the very thin wire ones. Could this be causing my hangfires?

Im pleased with the accuracy but wonder if I could do better. I hunt with it in the PA season alone, but the NY season with 2 friends who use cap locks. I target shoot with these 2 guys and match the accuracy of they're cap locks. Maybe its just because I dont shoot with other flinters that the hang fire seems so obvious.

I will say that Im pleased with its reliability. No matter how wet it is out I have never had it not fire as long as I pick it everytime. We hunt NY at my friends fathers house house and empty our muzzle loaders on his target range at the end of the day. This year we hunted 3 days in 8"+ of snow and I never had an evening shot that it didnt go off. Unfortunatly my 2 cap lock friends dont seem to have as much luck at the end of the day getting they're powder to fire. Maybe this is because of my very small touch hole.

Anyways I dont think lock time has much to do with it. I get an instant woosh from the pan the second I pull the trigger. I just sometimes have to wait for the BOOM. I normaly put a light coat of bore butter in the pan before I charge it and let the pan charge coat that. Is there something else I should try to reduce the hang fire?

Its 50 cal. I shoot 90 gr of 3f and pan charge with 4f. Could I be seating the ball to hard? I can live with the hangfire, but if someone has some tricks they would like to share Id apreciate it.

Thanks

 

[Big John]

Stop coating the pan with bore butter and drill the touchole out to no larger than 5/64 are two quick fixes.

 

[nchawkeye]

Is the touch hole liner coned???

You say it isn't removable, does it have a touch hole liner???

If a liner is coned, installed with the hole above the pan so the frizen covers it when shut and the hold large enough, then you should have no noticable hang fire...

As mentioned, you might try drilling it out a bit, or remove it and install one of the Chamber's White Lightnings...

If it is too low, you could make one, cone it and drill the hole to the proper height once it is installed...

 

[torn moc]

Dont coat the pan!!!
drill your vent to 5/64 and you will be OK!
Let us know if these changes help...they should be all you need to do......

 

[paulvallandigham]

Are you covering the vent hole with flashpowder when you load the gun? If the powder has to burn down so that heat can enter the hole to get to the main charge, that will always cause a hangfire.

Next, is the vent hole drilled in front of the breechplug, leaving a 1/8" gap between the back edge of the hole and the face of the plug? Or did someone have to drill a groove into the breechplug to get to the powder? Grooves tend to fill up quickly with crud, hold moisture, and that can cause a hangfire, too. Small wire picks won't clear out the grooves of the crud.

At the very least, the vent hold should be 1/16" for reliable ignition. The hole should be .030" above the top level of the flashpan, so that the rising heat from the burning prime will go into the hole for quick ignition.

There are other reasons for hangfires, but those are the more familiar or " common " causes.

Do stop putting grease in the bottom of the pan. The pan should be polished smooth as a mirror, so that it is easily wiped clean between shots. Its the powder residue that absorbs moisture quickly from the air. If you don't clean the pan, you can spoil the prime, and have a hand fire, or even a misfire for that reason alone. The smoother the pan is, the less likely its going to hold crud, and the easier it is to clean.

 

[mykeal]

First of all, everything above is good advice. Minimum 1/16" diameter touch hole. Cease buttering the pan. Polish the pan. Measure the touch hole location relative to the pan - if it isn't as Paul mentioned, you don't have to move the hole, you can machine the pan.

Just one other observation:

Anyways I dont think lock time has much to do with it. I get an instant woosh from the pan the second I pull the trigger. I just sometimes have to wait for the BOOM.

"Lock timing" includes the time to set off the main charge, not just the time from trigger break to pan charge ignition. Having to wait for the main charge to ignite indicates POOR lock timing. The changes above will very probably correct that.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I also think that a bigger vent hole will help. We don't know much about what you have yet. From what you say you might have simply a drilled cylinder shaped hole - or you might have a vent liner without a means for removing it.

In either case a bigger vent will help. Since we don't know for sure how big the vent is, how about trying a 1/16" bit to see if it will go in. I'd say a 1/16" hole is a minimum. I probably wouldn't go as big as 5/64" without trying a couple of numbered bits in between. I believe a #51 bit is .067". Any hardware should have it. A #50 is .070" (I think.) Either would be a step toward a 5/64". You're playing with small steps, but you might be fine with a smaller increase. One additional thing I do that most don't is to spin a countersink by hand in the vent. It removes the burr when drilling and done carefully makes a very slight exterior cone. In an earlier test 1/16" with exterior cone was more consistent than 1/16" without the cone.

Recent testing that I have reported on lead me to believe that a low vent hole is less important than where the priming powder is placed. A level prime was best.

When I have a hangfire that I can hear, I associate it with vent fouling. To eliminate that in my testing I used a pipe cleaner.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Mike Brooks]

1/16" touchole should work great. I consider any touch hole as big as 5/64 worn out and replace the liner.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I'm also a 1/16" vent guy, and I pick the vent just before I prime and after if I got sloppy with the prime.

 

[RC]

okay, from another n.y. hunter... i had the same problem..i switched from 3fff to 2ff and switched primer from 4 to 3....i can leave my gun loaded for a week with NO problem(giving thought to the weather!).. as long as i pic the hole every nite and every morn... just my expierence, but 3 bucks an a coyote in 4 years.....good luck!RC

 

[J.D.]

What Pletch said. He has done the tests and knows what he is talking about.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Not compressing the powder can lead to a hang, there isnt any such thing as too compressed.

I use 55gr of 3f & 4f in the pan, and it fires as smooth as glass.

Bore butter down the barrel, only before the first shot. After that the patches will clean and lube.

 

[William Joy]

Found that FFFg as main charge and primer works better then FFFFg as priming. When loading I plug the TH with a feather - so no fuse effect. Also when I carry I flintlock I try to keep it canted to the right so the priming powder stays away from the TH.

 

[ronrryan]

If the advice already recieved is not sufficient (and it should be) you MAY wish to try a VERY slight counterbore on the outside of the vent. Be VERY careful, if you take it off, you cant put it back. But this can aid in ignition. Good smoke, Ron in FL

 

[broknaero]

Thanks for the advice guys. Ill stop coating the pan. I also need to polish the pan. I have some pictures I hope they turn out ok. The bottom of the touch hole sits about flush with the top of the pan.I do not have a way to measure the touch hole at the moment. I use a safety pin to pick it. The T/C touch hole picks will not fit.

Let me see if these pictures will work.

 

[Leonredbeard]

brocknaero,
your lock is located waaay too low. you can measure your flash hole by trying to insert a one sixtenth inch drill bit. If it will not go in drill it with that bit. Even with the hole that high you should get instant ignition. At sometime in the future you could drill out that liner, have a custom one made to fit the threads and install it without drilling. After installation drill the hole about half way down to the edge of the liner. This will get the hole down far enough for the pan cover edge to cover the hole.
volatpluvia

 

[broknaero]

1/16" drill bit isnt even close to fitting. Any tricks to drilling it or just clamp it straight and use the drill press?

 

[sundog]

Man that touch hole looks small. When drilling do not use heavy pressure, keep backing out the bit to relieve chips and use cutting oil.
Reason being one thing you want to avoid at all costs is snapping off a drill bit in the hole. I have been there and done that, its nasty.
It is so easy to over power a small bit with a drill press now I use my Dremel tool and that solved the broken bit problems.

 

[broknaero]

Also I think the second and third pictures are the most accurate. The bottom of the touch hole is level with the top of the pan not way above the pan as the first picture suggests. Still it goes bang everytime.

 

[brubincam]

-----could you drill another touch hole just below the other one to make ignition quicker--what would it hurt to have two holes???-----