hard frizzen

[Randy W]

Lyman has a reputation for a pretty good heat treat on their frizzens. Doubt it’s soft, but if it is they would replace it.

Why are you using washers in your setup? Agate flint in your photograph doesn’t look like it’s held correctly or the wrong size. Would still like to see a photograph of your lock from the side at halfcock, flint in place, and the frizzen down. Someone may notice something. Something like this photo of a Lyman lock with the Lyman factory agate flint in it.
View attachment 34846

As pictured, how well (or, not well) does this lock perform? It looks just like the lock on my Lyman GPR except that mine is left handed. It's the first flintlock I've ever owned and I'm still learning how to shoot it. I haven't had to post a lot of questions because I realize that most questions a newbie might have has already been asked and answered so I just keep digging and searching. I have this rifle shooting pretty well. Accuracy is about as good as my 70 year old eyes and iron sights will allow. Ignition is fast and reliable so long as the flint is good. But...my problem is that flints don't last very long at all. A new flint typically will fire only about 5 shots before requiring some sort of attention and I'm hard pressed to get 20 shots from one before it is totally worn out. I don't believe it would be possible to change the geometry by heating and bending the cock to improve the angle between the jaws and the face of the frizzen because the lower jaw almost touches the pan now. I used a Timney Triggers pull gauge to check spring tensions; Top of the frizzen measures about 3 lbs. (average of 10 pulls) The frizzen at the point where the flint strikes measures 4 3/4 lbs. The Cock (Hammer) requires 6 lbs 12 oz to half cock and 9 lbs to full cock (again, 10 pull avg.).
Please excuse the long winded post...thanks in advance for any help...and if I should start my own thread so as not to highjack this one, someone, please tell me!

 

[tenngun]

Just a thought, I have got at least seventy shots from a good flint. I’ve also had more then one shatter on the first shot. I’ve gotten only ten shots from lots of flints.

 

[michael mcghee]

cut agate flints last long then most.. that one lock in my new deer stalker is a great plains lock..

 

[SDSmlf]

As pictured, how well (or, not well) does this lock perform? It looks just like the lock on my Lyman GPR except that mine is left handed. It's the first flintlock I've ever owned and I'm still learning how to shoot it. I haven't had to post a lot of questions because I realize that most questions a newbie might have has already been asked and answered so I just keep digging and searching. I have this rifle shooting pretty well. Accuracy is about as good as my 70 year old eyes and iron sights will allow. Ignition is fast and reliable so long as the flint is good. But...my problem is that flints don't last very long at all. A new flint typically will fire only about 5 shots before requiring some sort of attention and I'm hard pressed to get 20 shots from one before it is totally worn out. I don't believe it would be possible to change the geometry by heating and bending the cock to improve the angle between the jaws and the face of the frizzen because the lower jaw almost touches the pan now. I used a Timney Triggers pull gauge to check spring tensions; Top of the frizzen measures about 3 lbs. (average of 10 pulls) The frizzen at the point where the flint strikes measures 4 3/4 lbs. The Cock (Hammer) requires 6 lbs 12 oz to half cock and 9 lbs to full cock (again, 10 pull avg.).
Please excuse the long winded post...thanks in advance for any help...and if I should start my own thread so as not to highjack this one, someone, please tell me!

I guess I have been lucky with the flintlocks I have owned, as most seem to work well with minimal tweaking and I get fairly long flint life, even in locks notorious for being flint eaters, at least with real flint. The cut ones have always been a disappointment, at least for me.

Looking at your photo it appears that the flint will be hitting the frizzen a bit squarer than I prefer, though it could be the camera angle. I would try and move the flint back a bit from the frizzen and see if that gives enough of a, for lack of a better word, glancing or swiping strike more like the green line I added to your photo (tried to represent with an out scale markup made on my phone). Don’t know if this will solve your flint smashing problem, but from I see, it’s the first thing I would try. You may need a shorter flint and/or to cut a small hole in the leather so the flint can move back closer to the screw. I always want the flint to scrape down the face of the frizzen, not hit it head on.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I like to cut a notch in the back fold to give me room for adjustment. I will also put a short length of lacing leather under the back of the flint to lower the leading edge of the flint for more of a scrape.

 

[michael mcghee]

i cut the back of the leather turn the flint up side down.. need to try it out hope this weekend..

 

[SDSmlf]

if you have place where you can go outside, just put powder in the pan with NO main charge and see if pan powder ignites when you squeeze the trigger. No noise, a small flash and some smoke (don’t try inside). Still have to clean the gun, but at least you’ll know if you are on the right track without having to go to the range.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Even sparking the lock with no powder will be fine. The drawback of powder in the pan is that just one spark can ignite it. A 1-spark ignition is going to consume the powder slower than if you have a whole shower of them landing in the middle of the pan / powder. Just make sure they're yellow-orange, and not red gloppy ones (frizzed too soft), or small little white ones (frizzed too hard). Put the Goldy back in Goldilocks.

 

[Zonie]

Just a thought about having a "hard frizzen".

It's hardness has almost nothing to do with the amount of sparks the steel produces when the flint hits it. The amount of sparks it makes is the product of how much steel is sheared off of the face of the frizzen and the amount of carbon that's in the steel the frizzen is made of. More steel sheared off equals more material that will be glowing almost white hot. The small explosions of these fragments we call sparks are caused by the carbon combining with oxygen in the air and burning.

The only thing the frizzens hardness controls is the depth that the flint digs into the face of the frizzen. If the frizzen is left dead soft, the flint will rapidly wear away the steel and to some degree, the velocity of the flint falling will be slowed down producing a less hot fragment of steel.
Based on this, having a hard frizzen face will primarily just extend the life of the frizzen.

 

[EC121]

To change the angle of the flint put a matchstick or toothpick under the back edge of the flint. If you want to get fancy, you can file a wedge out of a thick washer.

 

[waksupi]

Get rid of cut agates, and stick to English flints to eliminate most of your problem.

 

[Intosomthin]

I guess I have been lucky with the flintlocks I have owned, as most seem to work well with minimal tweaking and I get fairly long flint life, even in locks notorious for being flint eaters, at least with real flint. The cut ones have always been a disappointment, at least for me.

Looking at your photo it appears that the flint will be hitting the frizzen a bit squarer than I prefer, though it could be the camera angle. I would try and move the flint back a bit from the frizzen and see if that gives enough of a, for lack of a better word, glancing or swiping strike more like the green line I added to your photo (tried to represent with an out scale markup made on my phone). Don’t know if this will solve your flint smashing problem, but from I see, it’s the first thing I would try. You may need a shorter flint and/or to cut a small hole in the leather so the flint can move back closer to the screw. I always want the flint to scrape down the face of the frizzen, not hit it head on.

View attachment 35086

This I do believe is my issue... i dont get that swipe, but a blunt thud.... ty for the diagram its very imformative

 

[MSW]

try the simple stuff first (good quality flint, adjusted properly, etc.) then move to the more complex stuff, like hardening and re-tempering the frizzen. You may also want to acquire a spare frizzen which, if your rehardening works as it should, you will not need for some time, but then you'll have it when you need it.

 

[Randy W]

Thanks guys, for the tips on improving the angle between the flint and the frizzen. I first tried placing a short length of lacing leather under the back of the flint as suggested. This did help but seemed to me that it compressed too easily to give me consistent and repeatable results and I had to "fiddle" with it almost constantly. I liked the idea of a wedge made from a washer so I tried that next and it seemed to work much better. It stays in place when removing/replacing the flint because the jaw screw runs through it, you can't lose the washer or mess up the adjustment unless you remove the jaw screw completely. I am able to adjust the angle by as much as 18 degrees. I'm still undecided on the choice between leather and lead for wrapping the flint...currently I'm using lead. I took a photo in low light just to see if the sparks are going into the pan as they should. I didn't take a "before" photo so I can't say that the things I did made a difference in that regard...Ignition has always been fast and reliable with a good flint. How well the flints will hold up now remains to be seen, but at least it feels good to be trying to do something to improve a less than perfect situation.

 

[Randy W]

Sparks in the pan...no prime