Hard to start the ball

[harrymarsh]

I am having a hard time starting the ball down the barrel with a short starter. It seems to be an extremely tight fit using the recommended pillow ticking and the .490 swagged ball from Hornady. I have to beat the short starter with the palm of my right hand to get it started. Once started it seats with little trouble with the ram rod. Any suggestions would be appreciated! I am using a mixture of Ballistol and water to lube the patches. Have a bruised palm!

Pguy

Pguy :idunno: :idunno: :idunno:

 

[nchawkeye]

Try a thinner patch, smaller ball or carry a mallet..... :wink:

 

[Vaino]

Striking the short starter w/ your palm is normal for a tighter ball/patch combo. Do it all the time w/ my super accurate squirrel rifle....Fred

 

[Sperit de bois]

Might also look into the muzzle just down the barrel.
I found in my earlier "cleaning'method ,before I got schooled.
When I used a bore brush I didnt take it all the way out of the muzzle,just plunged it up and down,left crud in the barrel just about the depth where a short starter would seat the ball past the crud.
Then to the patch/ball size as mentioned..

 

[jamesthomas]

I would try a different lube, Spit, Hoppes #9 plus, TOTW mink oil, jojoba oil, maybe a different ratio between Ballistol and water. If it's a new rifle you might need to polish the crown. What is your pillow ticking thickness?,and barrel make?.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I shoot a Lyman GPR 54 and have found starting a tight prb into the muzzle a real painful chore too.
To save my hand I resorted to starting the ball with a small all wood mallet, it works but after a few shots I must hammer the short starter down the first 6" after that I can ram the ball down the rest of the way with out problems.

I'm using a .535" ball and .017" patch material treated with water & ballistol mixed at a 7:1 plus a .58 cal OP felt wad soaked in melted mink oil grease.

I tried a .530" ball with the same patch but accuracy was total manure, but it was real easy to start this load combo and it loaded like dream, but shot like a nightmare.

Just for an experiment I put a 6" long .5" dia. brass rod into my perfectly cleaned barrel and seated the .530" ball with my patch. Then shook the barrel up and down to get the brass rod to hammer out the ball. Then I test loaded the larger .535" prb and hammered it out.

Comparing the cloth weave pattern that was embossed into both balls I saw that the larger .535" ball gave me a perfect cloth weave pattern heavily pressed into the ball by the lands and lightly pressed at the grooves.
The loose easy to load .530" ball only produced a spotted weave pattern just were the lands press the cloth no wonder it shot with such poor accuracy.
Now this loose load might shoot tighter groups if I dialled down the powder charge from the 90gr 2fg that I've been using but I have no interest target practicing with any load that not the same as my hunting load.

 

[nkbj]

Have you rounded off the entrance into the rifling at the muzzle? Sometimes that can help a lot and so can a really slick lube. Sometimes a greasy thick type lube is like that spoonful of sugar.

 

[kaintuck]

AND... set the heel of the butt on the ground...NOT your toe~ that puts it on firm surface, and when you push/hit the short starter....it will work better!
And......just maybe to little of lube, too much patch causes a hard start~somewhat like a lotta things in life :rotf: :surrender:

 

[Swede50]

I coned my 50cal TC Flintlock I can push a patched ball just under flush. Don't need a short starter but still use one because of RA. Bought the coning tool off one of the forum members.

 

[jerrywh]

I have a gun identical to yours and I use 20-20 windshield washer solvent with about 20% dove liquid hand soap mixed up. Also I have coned my bore. I can shoot all day without wiping. I shoot the same patch combo as you do and it is very accurate and easy to load. Face the wooden mallet with a piece of leather and it will not deface the ball as much. Also using too much powder will make it hard to load. I shoot 50 grs for targets up to 60 of 65 yds. and 80 grs for over that. When I'm having a good day I can out shoot anybody around here. That doesn’t happen very often. I'm old.

 

[Rifleman1776]

What kind of rifle? Not all stated nominal bores sizes are equal. You may have a .49 caliber bore.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Good point!

I was in the ML aisle at a big box sporting goods store with a friend one day when a stranger next to me asked, "Do you know anything about muzzleloaders?"

I said "I know a little", which prompted him to hold up a blister pack of sabot encased pills and ask, "Are these any good?"

I replied "Do you shoot a .54?", to which he replied in a snotty tone ".50, .54 what's the difference?"....I probably shouldn't have but I was young :redface: ....so I replied "Those are fine."

In my minds eye I can still see this guy trying to hammer those things down the bore.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[harrymarsh]

How does one go about coning the bore of his rifle?

Pguy

 

[jerrywh]

OH boy. Give me a day or so since it is the fourth of July week. I will get a photo of my tool and explain. Don't do anything hasty. you need a tool with a pilot on it to keep it true to the bore.

 

[roundball]

I am having a hard time starting the ball down the barrel with a short starter. It seems to be an extremely tight fit using the recommended pillow ticking and the .490 swagged ball from Hornady. I have to beat the short starter with the palm of my right hand to get it started. Once started it seats with little trouble with the ram rod. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Pguy, with all due respect, guard against being stampeded into immediately making modifications to your muzzleloader until you get a little more hands on time under your belt.
The statement in your quote in red says your typical, nominal PRB combo should be fine.

A good, snug fitting PRB, desired for its good accuracy, normally does take a good palm smack or two on a short starter.
And something that helps in that area is a good size wooden ball on top to spread the impact area on the palm.

Another thing to check is to ensure that the seating tip on the short starter you're using is plenty small enough in diameter to allow patch material to be bunched up, "wedged", all around it yet still enter the muzzle pretty easily. If the diameter is too large it can be adding unnecessary resistance to your short starter effort.

Also, try some Hoppe's PLUS BP Solvent & Patch Lube...it's slippery.

LARGE WOODEN BALL EXAMPLE

CVA FLAT TOP PALM SAVER STYLE

HOPPE's PLUS BP SOLVENT & PATCH LUBE

 

[Dphar]

I am having a hard time starting the ball down the barrel with a short starter. It seems to be an extremely tight fit using the recommended pillow ticking and the .490 swagged ball from Hornady. I have to beat the short starter with the palm of my right hand to get it started. Once started it seats with little trouble with the ram rod. Any suggestions would be appreciated! I am using a mixture of Ballistol and water to lube the patches. Have a bruised palm!

Pguy

Pguy :idunno: :idunno: :idunno:

Try a slicker lube like Mink oil or PURE Neatsfoot Oil, PURE, fairly wet but not dripping.
If it still loads excessively hard then the crown may need a polish. DO NOT let anyone cone it. This is a modern, distorted adaptation of the practice referred to as "freeing" the muzzle back in the day. Its not needed.

If the patches are not being damaged or cut at the crown its probably OK.

This is a learned skill and I tend to use the side of my fist rather than the palm.
Experiment. Work at it. See what works for you.

I can load a .495 (50) or .535 (54) and a heavy ticking patch without a starter unless using a "dry" lube like water soluble oil with the water allowed to evaporate. This needs a starter. Tallow or animal fat oils, sperm whale oil I load with just the ramrod.
This is a 535 in a 54 with Sperm Whale Oil and a .018 ticking patch. Short video. http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Video 1/?action=view&current=IMGP0620.mp4

This oil is less slick than Neatsfoot Oil. Tallow or even Crisco. Beef tallow, properly purified WITHOUT SALT, works very well and is not corrosive in my tests leaving the rifle loaded for 2-3 months. Smeared on the bore side of the patch only.

Dan

 

[David W.]

I am having a hard time starting the ball down the barrel with a short starter. It seems to be an extremely tight fit using the recommended pillow ticking and the .490 swagged ball from Hornady. I have to beat the short starter with the palm of my right hand to get it started. Once started it seats with little trouble with the ram rod. Any suggestions would be appreciated! I am using a mixture of Ballistol and water to lube the patches. Have a bruised palm!

Pguy

Pguy :idunno: :idunno: :idunno:

What rifle do you have? Could the barrel have shallow rifling?
You could also have a crown that only knocks off the lands, and without a chamfer on the grooves.
How is your accuracy?
Finally, what lube are you using?

 

[hobowonkanobe]

my Harpers Ferry 1803 is ".54 cal", it actually fires a .530 ball. I was told by the people at Dixie to use a .015 patch... bout got carpel tunnel loading it. switched to a .010 patch. so far, it has been better, though a wee loose. I may have to start collecting grass or moss in my possibles bag as a powder seal.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Good point!

I was in the ML aisle at a big box sporting goods store with a friend one day when a stranger next to me asked, "Do you know anything about muzzleloaders?"

I said "I know a little", which prompted him to hold up a blister pack of sabot encased pills and ask, "Are these any good?"

I replied "Do you shoot a .54?", to which he replied in a snotty tone ".50, .54 what's the difference?"....I probably shouldn't have but I was young :redface: ....so I replied "Those are fine."

In my minds eye I can still see this guy trying to hammer those things down the bore.

Enjoy, J.D.

Good answer.
There is no cure for stupidity.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Another thing to check is to ensure that the seating tip on the short starter you're using is plenty small enough in diameter to allow patch material to be bunched up, "wedged", all around it yet still enter the muzzle pretty easily. If the diameter is too large it can be adding unnecessary resistance to your short starter effort.

An obvious possibility that some of the experienced shooters here should have mentioned earlier. :redface: