Hard to start the ball

[jerrywh]

Here is a photo of my 50 cal. coning tool.
when used I just tape a piece of emery cloth onto the shaft just below the cone and wrap it around the cone counter clockwise. You only need a piece about two inches long. I put a little oil on the pilot shaft and then insert it in the barrel. Then turn the coning tool with an electric drill. It doesn't take much to do the job. you may have to use a couple pieces of Emory to complete the job. Don't go overboard. Keep the barrel where the pilot runs as clean as possible so as not to let emery dust get down in the bore and hurt the bore. You can make one of these out of hardwood and it will work for a few times but never make one out of aluminum. Aluminum will mess up the bore.

 

[hanshi]

Using fine grit sand paper/crocus cloth you can polish the crown with thumb pressure. It doesn't actually remove metal but does smooth the crown and takes off any sharp edges on the rifling. That's all you need and it works. If you don't need a short starter to get the prb into the bore then your load is too loose.

 

[jerrywh]

If it doesn't remove any metal why not forget the fine sandpaper and just use your thumb.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....if I may clarify your statement you could have said, "If you don't want to remove any metal you had better forget the sandpaper and just use your thumb".

Hanshi, You can guarantee that sandpaper removes metal...with a little or a lot of pressure.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Once started it seats with little trouble with the ram rod.

That really means nothing.
I regularly use a .457 prb in a .45 cal. Douglas barrel for target shooting. It is a hard short-short start (about 3/16"), firm short start (about 3"), then easy rest of way. With soft lead you can squish and squash almost anything into the barrel. Some bench shooters cram grossly oversized balls into their barrels.

 

[jerrywh]

What you say is absolutely true.
Many shooters are reluctant to cone the bore on their rifles because they fear it will ruin or degrade the accuracy. Surely it is possible to do so if done incorrectly but If done correctly it usually improves the accuracy to some degree. Why?
Because the easier the ball starts the less it is likely to be deformed. A short starter should have a face that pretty much matches the shape of the ball. A mallet should have a leather face for the same reason. Every muzzleloader I have has a coned bore. Some of them are coned to the extreme. They are all very accurate and will shoot a three inch group at 100 yds. Last week My buddy and I were shooting at clay pigeons at 200 yds. If it weren't for a 10 mph. cross wind that kept shifting we would have hit it at least three times out of four. Vertical groups were perfect but the ball was hitting about 16" to the left If it were a deer it would be in the freezer today.
Coned or not all that is really neccessary is that the patch is not cut when starting the ball and the ball is not too beformed when loading.
I was sort of joking about what hanshi said but his technique is a very good idea if one doesn't want to cone the bore. Some of the very best shooters do exactly what he described. It just takes that sharp edge off of the muzzle and prevents the patch from being cut. Also when he says " if you don't need a short starter your patch is too thin" I agree with 100% Better tight than too loose. In the old days many match shootrs had guns with false muzzle starters. All these were was a section of the muzzle cutt off and coned to extreme. They were attached to the bore with dowels in order that the ball could be loaded without deforming.

 

[hanshi]

The same could be asked about tuning a lock and polishing the internals.

 

[hanshi]

Technically (true) a microscopic bit of metal is removed but is only just enough to remove sharp edges and make the muzzle entrance a gradual squeeze rather than a shear. Coning, on the other hand, does flat out old fashion country remove metal. That makes me nervous and considering a simple polishing of the crown makes a noticeable difference; coning might be considered a last resort.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Makes me nervous too and though I have read about it I have yet to do it.

I might eventually just do it to see for myself but won't do it to a rifle that is already shooting very well as I am afraid of what might happen. :idunno:

Just haven't had the need to yet. Guess I'm still on the fence about coning.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jerrywh]

If you don't know how and don't have the tools don't do it.

 

[flintriflesmith]

...If you don't need a short starter to get the prb into the bore then your load is too loose.

I guess that all the accounts of American riflemen loading without short starters in the 18th and early 19th centuries just prove how much smarter 21st century people are than the likes of Daniel Boone!

Euopean target shooters and military aside, where do you see any evidence that short starters were needed or used?

Gary

 

[jdkerstetter]

If you don't know how and don't have the tools don't do it.

Thanks Jerry. I do and I won't. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[hanshi]

It's quite easy to load the same prb using only a knife handle and the ramrod; a short starter is just easier for most folks. I use to load oversize ball in a rifle using ONLY the ramrod with nary a problem other than a bit tighter start at the muzzle. I've seen quite a few 18th and 19th century rifles and few could be called "coned" by today's standards. Has nothing to do with smarter or dumber; one simply does what one does.

 

[nchawkeye]

...If you don't need a short starter to get the prb into the bore then your load is too loose.

I guess that all the accounts of American riflemen loading without short starters in the 18th and early 19th centuries just prove how much smarter 21st century people are than the likes of Daniel Boone!

Euopean target shooters and military aside, where do you see any evidence that short starters were needed or used?

Gary

Could you please quote your period accounts where they say they didn't use a short starter????

Kinda wonder if they didn't have them, why would they say they didn't use them.... :hmm:

 

[flintriflesmith]

They didn't say they had them. They didn't mention them at all. They simply describe the detailed process of loading with no mention of a short starter.

Maybe the guys starting fires with flint and steel had matches in their pockets and just didn't use them. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

As I understand it, there has never been a documented find of a 'short starter' from the 18th or 19th century.

This, coupled with no mention of a 'short starter' in any written document of the period seems to indicate that they did not exist back then.

There are some barrels which either have a great deal of wear at the muzzle or they were coned.
The jury is out on the real reason.

Some use this to defend coned barrels, pointing out the absence of 'short starters' or their mention but that is not necessarily the only answer.

We, in our quest for great accuracy, often use very tight patch/ball combinations that require the use of a 'short starter' or a coned barrel along with a dam strong thumb to load it.

It is entirely possible that the old timers used a loose patch/ball combination that was easy to start with just some moderate thumb pressure.

If one tosses out the incredible shooting scores made by a few I think it is fairly easy to suppose that minute of deer/squirrel/Indian was all that was necessary for the average shooter back then.

If their guns powder/patch/ball load would put meat on the table and defend them then they were happy.

A .480 diameter ball with a .015 thick patch would be easy to load and the accuracy would be pretty good. Certainly good enough to bag a deer for dinner.
At least that's my take on it.

 

[nchawkeye]

Many day to day events don't go into excessive detail...Just because they didn't mention them (or those who could write didn't) doesn't suprise me...I see accounts all the time written by reporters that don't know what they are talking about....

 

[jdkerstetter]

Very true, however, as Zonie points out, no short starters have been found despite all of bags that have been recovered full of every other implement required for loading and shooting.

The lack of documentation and the lack of physical evidence seems to support the theory that they just weren't used, yet some phenominal feets of accuarcy were attained. Timothy Murphy shot General Fraser at 500 yards with a muzzle loading rifle at Saratoga. Fluke?

I don't fault anybody for using one. To each their own.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jerrywh]

Every time I hear that story the range gets longer.

Murphy climbed a nearby tree, took careful aim at the extreme distance of 300 yards, and fired four times. The first shot was a close miss, the second grazed the General's horse, and with the third, Fraser tumbled from his horse, shot through the stomach. General Fraser died that night. British Senior officer Sir Francis Clerke, General Burgoyne's chief aide-de-camp, galloped onto the field with a message. Murphy's fourth shot killed him instantly. Murphy also fought at the battle of the Middle Fort in 1780.[1]

 

[Many Klatch]

I don't like to have to pound a ball down the barrel, for one reason, my palms won't stand up to it for another it is too much like work.

I experiment with different sized ball and patch combinations until I can find one with adequate accuracy and ease of loading.

I have had all of my rifle barrels coned. My .54 seems to like a .526 ball with a .012 patch. I am currently working up a load for my .45 rifle. Right now I am using a .445 ball with .012 patching but I have also used a .440 ball with .015 patching.

I don't need to use a short starter to load, I can thumb start and send them home with the ramrod. I do have a short 1/2" stub on my .54 powder measure that I can use to push the ball flush with the barrel so I can cut off the patch once the bore gets dirty.

Most of my shooting is offhand, loading from the pouch. Hunting accuracy or minute of deer accuracy is fine by me.

If you are going to do bench shooting, get a bigger hammer for your short starter. If you are going to be loading and shooting in the woods, loosen up your patch ball combination.

Many Klatch