Having an issue with my 1850s percussion pistol.

[FennixMatt]

Hello everyone! I recently bought a 1850s-ish Allen and Thurber Bar Hammer pistol. I bought it as a non working collectors gun, but after looking it over it’s in amazing mechanical condition. The bore is in great shape and the action is snappy. I had a local gunsmith look at it and he thinks it would be perfectly safe to fire. After cleaning out the nipple (a hard task since its basically rust welded in place, but I managed it) and cleaning it up in general, I did a test fire with a small powder charge and a paper wad and it fires reliably. Now here is the issue… This pistol is a breach loader, you unscrew the barrel to load it. On this particular pistol, the barrel is rust welded in place and for the life of me I cannot get it loose. I’ve soaked it in PB blaster, and that did nothing. The gunsmith I took it to said he couldn’t break it free either, and if I want to shoot it I’d just have to load it from the barrel like a typical muzzle loader. Would that work on one of these pistols? I tried to load it with a .36 cal ball (which is what it’s supposed to take to my understanding) but it would not go in the barrel. I wonder if this gun is somehow a .35 cal or something weird like that, or if this gun has a choke bore given how it was originally designed to be loaded… The ball just barely doesn’t fit, that’s why I’m curious. I know .35 caliper doesn’t exist (in black powder unless I’m wrong??) but it’s so close so that’s the best comparison I can give. I apologize for the block of text, just wanted to make sure I didn’t leave anything out! Thank you for any help you can give me, I’m interested in hearing your opinions!

 

[springfield art]

There were lots of non-standard oddball calibers back then! You can get any specific size round ball mold from Larry Callahan, who sells muzzle loading stuff. As to it being 'choked', I'd guess not, but good luck! It's a neat little pistol. When a kid, I had a plastic model of a Pepperbox. Wonder what happened to it??

 

[hawkeye2]

I see nothing to indicate that it is a screw barrel pistol where the barrel is removed to load it. It is common for the type pistol you have to have a barrel attached to the frame by being screwed on but that is for manufacturing purposes only. Unfortunately it seems to be a widespread belief that any pistol assembled this way was intended to be loaded by removing the barrel. If it lacks an exterior lug on the barrel for a special wrench or an oddly shaped bore at the muzzle for a key the barrel was never intended to be removed. BTW, it will not be choke bored and I expect it is smoothbore. If you can't get an accurate bore measurement you could take it to a machine shop to have them do it.

 

[TNGhost]

I see nothing to indicate that it is a screw barrel pistol where the barrel is removed to load it. It is common for the type pistol you have to have a barrel attached to the frame by being screwed on but that is for manufacturing purposes only. Unfortunately it seems to be a widespread belief that any pistol assembled this way was intended to be loaded by removing the barrel. If it lacks an exterior lug on the barrel for a special wrench or an oddly shaped bore at the muzzle for a key the barrel was never intended to be removed. BTW, it will not be choke bored and I expect it is smoothbore. If you can't get an accurate bore measurement you could take it to a machine shop to have them do it.

The flats on the breech area could be a sign of a screw barrel, but you are probably right. An internal investigation by way of one of those barrel cameras may be enlightening. Either way, with a proper size ball I see no reason it could not be loaded from the muzzle.

As far as break free, etc, I have always had the best luck with a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Works better and faster in my experience,

 

[FennixMatt]

I see nothing to indicate that it is a screw barrel pistol where the barrel is removed to load it. It is common for the type pistol you have to have a barrel attached to the frame by being screwed on but that is for manufacturing purposes only. Unfortunately it seems to be a widespread belief that any pistol assembled this way was intended to be loaded by removing the barrel. If it lacks an exterior lug on the barrel for a special wrench or an oddly shaped bore at the muzzle for a key the barrel was never intended to be removed. BTW, it will not be choke bored and I expect it is smoothbore. If you can't get an accurate bore measurement you could take it to a machine shop to have them do it.

The bore is actually rifled, but how exactly would I measure it to see what the caliper size is? Also, I just figured out that it is so close to .36 caliper that if I crush the ball just slightly with a pair of pliers all the way around, I can push it into the barrel with what feels like should be a normal amount of force and it seems to fit. Part of me wonders if this ball would be safe to shoot since it fits now lol.

 

[TFoley]

From my documentation -

'These bar hammer pistols, also known as No.9 Single Shot Self Cocking Pistols, feature a distinctive bar-shaped hammer, operating solely in double-action. Primarily designed for self-defense, they excel in close-range effectiveness. These pistols boast a lengthy history of production, available in diverse versions and frame sizes. Their calibers span from 28 to 36. The half-octagonal, half-round barrel of the screw-off type, vary in length from 2 to 10 inches. The standard pistol version has a blued finish and walnut grips.' 'These pistols had rifled barrels.'

 

[Sam squanch]

I believe the “ nipple “ on these was machined into place with a special cutter, its part of the breech and is not removable.

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

I bought 35 cal. balls for my Numrich underhammer pistol from Track of the Wolf.

 

[hawkeye2]

I have a Harbor Freight 115 piece drill bit set and I use the shanks of the drills to measure with like a plug gauge. I do mike the shank after I find one that fits as the bits do vary somewhat from their nominal size.

 

[smoothshooter]

I see nothing to indicate that it is a screw barrel pistol where the barrel is removed to load it. It is common for the type pistol you have to have a barrel attached to the frame by being screwed on but that is for manufacturing purposes only. Unfortunately it seems to be a widespread belief that any pistol assembled this way was intended to be loaded by removing the barrel. If it lacks an exterior lug on the barrel for a special wrench or an oddly shaped bore at the muzzle for a key the barrel was never intended to be removed. BTW, it will not be choke bored and I expect it is smoothbore. If you can't get an accurate bore measurement you could take it to a machine shop to have them do it.

It would be faster to load it from the muzzle than by unscrewing the barrel, loading it from the breech, and screwing the barrel back on anyway.

 

[bpd303]

I would try after soaking the barrel/breech in a good penetrating oil like Kroil or the 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF, clamp the octagon part of the barrel in a sturdy padded bench vise and gently rock the frame back & forth to see if it will break loose. It may be left hand thread (silly wild guess).

 

[2 shots]

as said not a screw barrel. the ball will be about 10 thousands under bore size and would be patched since it is rifled. true screw barrels were loaded w/o a patch with an oversize ball. dont mess it up.

 

[PathfinderNC]

What makes you sure it’s a screw-off barrel? I would bet it’s not.

 

[bpd303]

What makes you sure it’s a screw-off barrel? I would bet it’s not.

https://www.bpgcollector.com/barhammer-pistols/
This...
Quote from the site.
"The half-octagonal, half-round barrel of the screw-off type, vary in length from 2 to 10 inches. The standard pistol version has a blued finish and walnut grips."

Edit: BTW about 10-15 years ago I had one in my shop with the same problem. The owner couldn't unscrew the barrel. I made a plug for the cone (nipple) and used Kroil down the barrel to get the breech soaking. It took about 3 days of soaking then trying to unscrew the way I posted earlier. When it did move slightly I just turned it some then backed it up with more Kroil. When dealing with stuck black powder guns like this patience is a virtue, not to hurry and possibly mess something up.

 

[2 shots]

after some research it seems it is a screw barrel. soak it for a few weeks [ inside and out] and try gently to remove it, if no go soak again. not likely to loosen up in a day or two. first make sure its not loaded.

 

[bpd303]

after some research it seems it is a screw barrel.