Hawk Handle Problems

[Louisk]

I thought I'd try hawk throwing so ordered an Iroquois Hawk from TOTW. Not knowing what I was doing I assumed the handle was the right shape and just tapped the head on to the handle and commenced throwing. Of course the head and handle parted company on the first throw and did likewise after a couple more attempts to secure the head.

I finally got smart and watched a couple of videos online about properly fitting a hawk head. Trouble is it's starting to look like I'm going to run out of wood on the handle before I can get a snug fit.

On the videos it appears like the guys are starting with handles that have a lot more wood sticking out of the top of the head when they start trimming. My handle started out with a loose fit with an inch or less on top to work with. I'm just trying to figure out if there's better handles you can start with or if the problem is all from my fumbling. Thanks.

 

[tenngun]

You can wedge it, that was known in the old days. Should you have a welded hawk you want your wedge to run on an 8-2 position so you stress the weld. Should you have a bench vise you can lay the hawk on the vise and tap the handle in. Or you can heat the eye and drop it on the handle, tap down and when it cools it will be tight.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My handle started out with a loose fit with an inch or less on top to work with. I'm just trying to figure out if there's better handles you can start with or if the problem is all from my fumbling. Thanks.

Well a lot of the 'hawks for sale are not cast, but are actually forged..., forged in India, but forged none the less, so the eyes for the handles vary a bit. Further the handles are mass produced on lathes, and if the guy running the lathe has a pattern piece that isn't fully dried, which then dries as time goes on..., his pattern literally shrinks...so does his finished product. There are plenty of other variables that can effect a replacement or "new" 'hawk handle.

So, what to do.

Take your 'hawk head, and insert the handle until it stops, don't bang on it, just until it stops. invert it so the head is toward the ground and place this in a 1-gallon ziplock bag. Pour mineral oil into the bag to cover the head, until the head with that small portion of the handle in the eye are submerged in the oil. Set this some location where it won't tip over and spill, and let it sit for at least 24 hours. (You can use a hard container, but they tend to require you to use a lot more mineral oil) :wink:

The oil will cause the wood to swell where it comes into contact and in your case that's at the eye. Because it's not water it will not evaporate when you're done, and although any oil like olive, or canola, will also work..., mineral oil is not edible, and thus if you store the 'hawk in the basement, the mice won't start to chew it up.

After 24 hours, remove the 'hawk and wipe off the excess oil. Return the excess oil to the container, and save it for future handles, or for seasoning a wooden bowl, etc. Tap the top of the handle into the eye, to snug it up further. You should find it much tighter and that it stays put over time.

OH, you may have to strip off lacquer finish from the handle to get it to absorb oil. Use something like Citristrip, and then don't save the oil if you used a stripping compound.

LD

 

[tenngun]

I have to say I spent many a fun evening at rendezvous playing handles. The rules were one would throw the others would aim at his handle. After everyone threw, the first moved to the back of the line. First had three chances th stick in the block. You would try to just barely stick so the next hawk hitting the block would knock yours out. You had to be careful, if you didn’t stick in three times you had to go up and stick the hawk sideways so it was a perfect target.
One trick was to have the handle very loose. And then stick upside down so the handle would slip out.

 

[Black Hand]

...mineral oil is not edible...

There is a grade of mineral oil that can be taken internally for its laxative properties. While it may not be tasty, by definition, it is edible. Also, mice aren't really known for their discerning palates, so will eat a great many things humans think inedible.

Swelling the handle by using oil is, at best, a temporary fix. The best solution is to purchase a new handle (at ~$7-10) that fits properly. Another option is making a handle from Hickory (hickory tool handles are available from the hardware store and can be altered to fit). It all depends on how much time you wish to devote.

 

[George]

The oil usually used to treat cutting boards, wooden bowls, etc., is food grade mineral oil.

Spence

 

[Loyalist Dave]

by definition, it is edible.

Oh, I thought it meant "fit to be eaten as food", I had no idea that it simply meant anything that one can eat that does no harm..., so pennies are "edible"..., wonderous. :haha:

Since mineral oil is not a food source, I doubt that the mice will nipple on it as I've seen them do on items treated with olive or canola oil.


LD

 

[spudnut]

I learned the trick of storing my Hawks head down on concrete,my shed floor is always damp and it swells them tight

 

[Louisk]

Thanks, folks. Great advice as usual. I'll try the mineral oil trick and see what happens. Probably not enough wood left to do much with the handle I have. I finally got it to stay in reasonably well but there's zero wood protruding from the top of the head now.

The handle mostly comes out when I throw it and the handle hits instead of the head (which happens frequently but not quite as frequently as when I started) I went ahead and ordered a couple more handles from TOTW. Looks like I'll need them anyway since the boys and I are beating up the handle pretty good in the learning process.

This a great cheap sport to engage in at the wood pile while procrastinating wood splitting. I found it sticks a lot better after I put a good edge on it and found a nice soft, wet aspen round for a target instead of the birch

 

[necchi]

and the handle hits instead of the head.

Your too close to the block, back-up a half step. That's the key really for the hawk toss,, the hawk does a full rotation. For most folks it's 6-7 paces away from the block,, Too close and the handle hit's first,, too far and the top of the hawk blade is all that hit's.
Stand aside a bit as you let the boy's throw,, and watch the hawk flight. You'll start to see it. It's mostly an elbow movement with a forward step on the power side. Not at all like a baseball throw, too much forward shoulder movement will mess things up.

I went ahead and ordered a couple more handles

Good, When you get those, it's usually just some of the sides that need to come off with a rasp and do it slow. Put the handle in the head, turn the whole thing upside-down and drop the handle on a rock,, the pressure points (areas to remove) will show on the handle.
The more you throw it and stick,, the more the wood of the handle will compress in the socket.
Here's a hint,, Winter project,, make handles.
The whole idea behind the tapered eye axe head was that all they had to trade/sell was the axe head. Folks whittled their own handles to fit from uhm, tree branches(?)

 

[tenngun]

Then when you got the one turn down walk out half that distance farther 9- 10, turn the blade backwards and throw. Hawk will stick at the bottom with handle up.
I’ve stuck at four turns but two turns is about my max. You have got really chuck it hard, and everything in you arm hurts after doing just one.
I did get the name pixi sticker as I learned how to throw it just had enough to stick but fall out easy with the block being hit by another hawk.

 

[necchi]

Then when you got the one turn down walk out half that distance farther 9- 10, turn the blade backwards and throw. Hawk will stick at the bottom with handle up.

aka; Crazy Hawk,, the hawk goes 1 and a half rotations.
3 paces back from your original learned pace.
Then there side hawk, underhand, underhand crazy, cross side,,
I think the OP just needs the darn thing to stick,, then move the stick around the clock a bit before he starts the fancy stuff :wink:

 

[Louisk]

[/quote]

I think the OP just needs the darn thing to stick,, then move the stick around the clock a bit before he starts the fancy stuff :wink: [/quote]
You hit that on the head! Have a lot of practice just getting it to stick before moving on to advanced maneuvers! New handles came from TOTW but will use the old one until it's gone. Great idea carving new handles from local wood. I wonder how well a black spruce hawk handle will hold up.

 

[necchi]

I wonder how well a black spruce hawk handle will hold up.

:hmm: , don't know,, maybe. Historically they traded a lot of hawk heads in areas that have no hickory trees!

Another tip for fitting handles,
Don't cut the top off the handle above the hawk head, leave it stick out. Like I mentioned the handle compresses with use and having that extra on top allows you to continue to "re-fit"

 

[tenngun]

I have seen some red cedar ( juniper) handles that was reported to work well in use, but not thrown. I’ve seen red cedar bows that were reported to work well. I’ve no experience with them.
I did make a post oak handle, that I didn’t have any trouble with but slit easy in a game of handles.

 

[Louisk]

I just saw a video made by a guy in this neck of the woods about carving a hawk handle out of birch. Would be interesting to try that along with alder, willow and spruce. I suppose it would be best to let the wood cure since there would be some shrinkage. Then the pitch could be a problem with the spruce....might have a throwing hawk that wouldn't leave your hand.

 

[necchi]

:haha:

 

[crockett]

I had a similar problem- running out of handle. I first filled the void nooks and crannies with hide glue- not waterproof so you can soak it and take it out if the handle breaks. I then wrapped rawhide- cut thongs- around the handle just under the head. This keeps the handle from sliding up and out and also re-enforces the wood and looks pc. I covered the rawhide with hide glue and sanded smooth. In a bad rain you would need to put a baggies over the rawhide/hide glue but it does stand a light rain.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have seen some red cedar ( juniper) handles that was reported to work well in use, but not thrown. I’ve seen red cedar bows that were reported to work well. I’ve no experience with them.
I did make a post oak handle, that I didn’t have any trouble with but slit easy in a game of handles.

Tenn, I would caution you to not believe those reports. I have worked with a lot of red cedar. It is one of the last materials I would ever consider for a handle of any kind. As soft as it is, it is very brittle and would not hold up to any punishment. In our game, that could be dangerous.

 

[tenngun]

I would hesitate for it myself but the guy I saw they had it was splitting wood with it for a whole week at rendezvous. His cedar bow was about 30 lbs pull and shot well. I was told that while it was easily split it was very flexible
I will stick with hickory, though Osage orange , ash, or elm would serve