Hawken... a pet peeve

[54ball]

OK

Jim Hawkins was the cabin boy from Treasure Island.

Samuel And Jacob Hawken were builders of the famous mountain rifle.

Companies produce the modern "hawken" type of rifle based on the Thompson Center Hawken.

So Hawken Rifle, hawken or Hawken's rifle are correct.

Hawkin, Hawkins, Hawkings, Hawkinz or even Hawkens, not so much.

 

[Rod Lassey]

You mean Stephen Hawking doesn't build guns? :haha:

I share your frustration, although wasn't the name Anglicized from Hachen or something similar?

Rod

 

[Billnpatti]

You are absolutely right, and I agree with you, but it is such a small thing. So many of us on this forum are guilty of misspellings, improper grammar, typos and so many other things that would make our English teachers' skin crawl. Even so, we share a love for muzzleloading weapons so I guess we should excuse these little potential irritations and just pay attention to the message that we came for. :hatsoff:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Agree. This and abbreviations of Remington are like fingernails on a chalkboard.

I try to be understanding, especially with new to muzzleloading folks. It gets very old.

 

[Brian6396]

We could post our comments in the proper grammar for our chosen time period/persona :grin:

 

[LaBonte]

OK

Jim Hawkins was the cabin boy from Treasure Island.

Samuel And Jacob Hawken were builders of the famous mountain rifle.

Companies produce the modern "hawken" type of rifle based on the Thompson Center Hawken.

So Hawken Rifle, hawken or Hawken's rifle are correct.

Hawkin, Hawkins, Hawkings, Hawkinz or even Hawkens, not so much.

on the other hand one is perfectly period correct using some of those such as Hawkin and Hawkins since writers of the day often made the same faux paux so it don't bother me a bit....(except when some one is doing research and don't have the proper term)....

In June 1839, one of the American Fur company's employees bought from "Jacob and Sam. Hawkins" a "smooth bord rifle $22".

In 1829 Etienne Provost, a French Canadian, became a partner in the American Fur Company. An entry for "2 rifles, Hawkins & Co., $50 " was made against his account ...............In the same year, Kenneth McKenzie from Fort Floyd (later renamed Fort Union) asked Pierre Chouteau Jr. for two rifles "similar in all respects to the one made by Hawkins for Provost."

Invoice of Sundry Merchandise from the Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836 under charge of Fontenelle, Fitzpatrick, & Co.
2 Rifles Hawkin

1837 American Fur Company invoice 1837:
5 Am. Rifles steel mounted @$19 (Henry Lancasters)
10 Hawkens Rifles @$24

Louis Simonds, an acquaintance of Lewis Garrad, spoke of a Cincinnatian at the Taos Insurrection of 1847 as: "Out in the pinyon, that morning, with big Saint Loui' gun - a Jake Hawkins gun, she was eh?

James Kirker, mountain man, was described by one of Doniphan's Missouri Regiment in 1846:
"Fringed buckskin shirt and breeches, heavy broad Mexican hat, huge spurs, all embellished and ornamented with Mexican finery......In addition to a Hawkens rifle elegantly mounted and ornamented with silver inlaid on the stock, he was armed with a choice assortment of pistols and Mexican daggers........."

just saying..... :hmm:

 

[Rifleman1776]

We could post our comments in the proper grammar for our chosen time period/persona :grin:

The time periods we pretend to emulate involved a lot of accents, dialects and uneducated people. Even family names were misspelled.
Read some of the posts here, the (mis)spelling affliction is still with us.

 

[Robert Egler]

Pet Peeve? I went into the pet store the other day and asked if they had any Peeve food for my pet peeves, but they didn't. :haha:

 

[Snakebite]

I thought I was the only one it bugged.

I supposed there are bigger things to worry about though.

I had to sit in on a meeting by the division G4 SGM (Sergeant Major) (snooze snooze) when I was in the Army and I remember she said something about "you gotta be pacific when you're re-interating". What???

Hawkin isn't so bad even though we should know it's Hawken.

 

[Alden]

Agree. This and abbreviations of Remington are like fingernails on a chalkboard.

I try to be understanding, especially with new to muzzleloading folks. It gets very old.

A little subjective, aren't we? I mean "Remington" itself is an abbreviation of a company or man's name, right? Your's is OK but not another's!? I thank goodness his last name wasn't Eliphalet. And he was a "Jr.". Another abbreviation (which I hope is OK with you). I am sorry we don't have Junior's New Model Army to this day.

The abbreviation I hate most and immediately discriminate over? "Shotty" for shotgun. Really? You jut needed to save that letter for something else!? It even has the same nuber of syllables dammit!

And just wait till 1776 chimes in -- he has a THING about Hawken rifles.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Sure, it is subjective. :surrender:

'Shotty' for shotgun is number three on my pet peeve list right after Remington abbreviations.

English was one of my worst subjects is school. Hated English classes.

Words flail me. :grin:

 

[nchawkeye]

You just have to let some things pass...

For example, I prefer the term American Long Rifle but many use Kentucky rifle or Pennsylvania rifle...

Heck, I've even seen posts of what were called Kentucky rifles that were as much a Kentucky rifle as I am a Baptist preacher..... :rotf:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

With apologies to original poster, 54ball.

Just noticed in 'Todays Birthdays'.

It is ' Hawkins ' birthday today!

Happy Birthday long time member, Mr. Ron Hawkins!

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:


:v

 

[Vaino]

Hachen is the Hawken family name.....but,some family members used Haga.No matter how it's spelled, if it's understood, then that's the important thing......Fred

 

[FishDFly]

Folks say let things pass, but then they want PC/HC at times when they want to follow guidelines.

1. Shotty
2. Flinter
3. Smoke pole
4. Remmy
5. "HER"
6. Front stuffer

"Her" I have checked all my M/L's and have not found any parts to indicate they have a specific gender, female. Would you call a rifle made for the fur trade "HER" with the way the rifles were made? They sure were deemed to be made of male parts to me.

I have been reading about muzzle loaders since 1972 or so, Muzzle Blasts and numerous books in my collection and do find the above terms in my readings.

It seems all the new "cutesy names" have come along with the internet, they did not exist before.

Did a person walk into a gun makers building in the 1800's and ask for a smoke pole or a shotty?

 

[nchawkeye]

Ever heard of "Betsy" or "Sweet Lips"???

My flinters are named Sweetheart and Daisy...

 

[FishDFly]

Nope and my chain saws do not have names, nor do my hammers, but my trucks do, green, brown and white, that is the color the factory painted them.

Just not into cute names for things, they are tools, not cute or sex objects.

 

[bpd303]

I think some call their muzzleloaders "her" because they can be so temperamental. Sorry dear not tonight I have a headache. :grin:
I apologize before hand Cynthialee (couldn't help myself)

 

[S.Kenton]

Some people name their cars, trucks, rifles and so-forth..I say to each his own.

 

[bubba.50]

maybe some of the ladies listenin' in could give y'all a midol .