FOR SALE Hawken Half Stock Rifle. Reduced

[lexington1]

A nice Hawken Half Stock Rifle. 1" X .50 X 33" barrel. Weighs 9.35 Lbs. A nice Hawken. I have no idea who made it, but it's a quality rifle. Asking 925.00 shipped Fedex. Reduced to $825.00 shipped.

 

[lexington1]

More pictures

 

[Frontier's]

looks like an Ithica Hawken to me.

 

[lexington1]

looks like an Ithica Hawken to me.

It could be. I have no idea. There is not a marking on it.

 

[Frontier's]

Take a look here. I'd say without a doubt, someone built it from a kit and removed the stamping on the barrel.
https://grrw.org/ithaca-hawken-ithaca-gun-co/

 

[Gtrubicon]

Do either the triggers or lock have a Cherry Corners stamp? This would not be visible unless you disassemble.

 

[lexington1]

Do either the triggers or lock have a Cherry Corners stamp? This would not be visible unless you disassemble.

I will look tomorrow.

 

[SDSmlf]

looks like an Ithica Hawken to me.

Yep, agree. And the builder left plenty of wood if someone had the mind to cutesy it up a bit. Nice gun.

 

[Urban Coyote]

Take a look here. I'd say without a doubt, someone built it from a kit and removed the stamping on the barrel.
https://grrw.org/ithaca-hawken-ithaca-gun-co/

After looking the website at this link I would agree it's an Ithaca Hawken. I wonder if they stamped the kits the same as the factory guns? Anyway, it appears to be a nice gun that will make some lucky person happy.

 

[TxGR]

A very long time ago, maybe early 90's, I was told the most accurate (to history) generic plains rifle was the Ithaca, until the Lyman Great Plains Rifle was released. They were, I was told at the time, better than the Italian made Lyman GPR. I was too late to get an Ithaca. They had already gone out of business or stopped production of their Hawken (reading the link above, they were bought by Navy Arms who then did a switch to a Uberti replica, ditching the original Ithaca/Cherry Corners design). This was all before the Internet had everything on it and lots of archival info.

I really wanted a "true Ithaca" for the longest time. I still have a special affinity for the half-stock plains rifle.

 

[lexington1]

Some great information. I remember when the Ithaca's came out. I had never actually seen one in person but saw the ads in the Buckskin Report and Muzzleloader magazine. I had kind of forgotten about them through the years. I swapped into this one several years back and had no idea who made it.

 

[Pegleg_86]

It could also be a Uberti Santa Fe Hawken. Those and the Armi San Marco made Hawken were both made almost exactly like this with the same trigger guards even.

 

[LME]

A very long time ago, maybe early 90's, I was told the most accurate (to history) generic plains rifle was the Ithaca, until the Lyman Great Plains Rifle was released. They were, I was told at the time, better than the Italian made Lyman GPR. I was too late to get an Ithaca. They had already gone out of business or stopped production of their Hawken (reading the link above, they were bought by Navy Arms who then did a switch to a Uberti replica, ditching the original Ithaca/Cherry Corners design). This was all before the Internet had everything on it and lots of archival info.

I really wanted a "true Ithaca" for the longest time. I still have a special affinity for the half-stock plains rifle.

I have a Uberti made Ithaca Hawkin. It is made from the same pattern That Cherry Corner"s used. I can find no difference in the two. I called Ithaca in the early eighties to inquire about getting one and was told they were not making any more and that they had two left. I bought both of them. As far the quality goes they are excellently made and extremely accurate, What you heard about the quality is incorrect. Uberti makes some of the best replica fire arms you can buy. I have no idea where you got your information but it was wrong. I have worked on several M.L. rifles and have yet to see one factory made that was better than the Italian made Ithaca's in looks, function and accuracy regardless of where it was made.

 

[TxGR]

[snip]
What you heard about the quality is incorrect. Uberti makes some of the best replica fire arms you can buy.
[snip]

As I wrote before, with respect to the Ithaca, I have no personal experience. This was what I heard from others and what I read on bulletin boards or in magazines at the time.

As for the quality of Uberti, what they produce now, after being purchased by Beretta, is not the same as before Beretta bought them.

Watch some of the detailed comparison videos of older Uberti's completely broken down. There are lots of tooling marks, burrs, and very sharp edges.

Italian imports in the 80's and 90's were cheap. They made the sport accessible. In many cases, they were the only option. They were not noted for their correctness or quality. The 2nd Gen Colt cap and ball revolvers were miles ahead of their Italian contemporaries, even as the backstrap and top-strap rough forgings came from Uberti. The finish machining was done by Colt and later by Iver Johnson to Colt specifications, and inspected by Colt.

I owned several Italian made guns. I still own some and bought two more in just the last two years. Of the Italian makers of muzzleloaders, Pedersoli is widely considered to be the top (that's subjective, but their prices reflect that). I have their Rocky Mountain Hawken. It's a very nice rifle, cost almost as much as a Kibler kit, and I paid extra for the fancy maple stock. It's reasonably correct as a half-stock plains rifle, better than the Lyman Great Plains Rifle (another Italian gun I own), but the browning of the barrel is off. The color is right, but it is very thin. The wood finish is off. The character in the wood looks almost fake with some sort of weird grain reflection. It feels off. At a distance it looks great.

More recently, I paid over US$1000 for a Pedersoli Remington "Custom Target" which is supposed to be hand finished and not require any of the clean-up of the working surfaces Italian guns were infamous for 20+ years ago. The action does feel good. There is a very small burr scraping the side of the hammer. The loading lever catch just fell out of the dovetail the first time I lowered the loading lever. Once I degreased it, the front sight fell out of the dovetail. That's just lousy quality control, and that's from their premier product which is supposed to be hand fit.

I will give credit to Pedersoli on the fit - it's among the best I've ever seen of any maker. The stocks are excellent - really the feel and look of what I expected on the RMH. The lock-up is tight, no end-shake, and the action feels very smooth with a crisp break. I'm not really upset. I can stake the dovetail pieces myself - it's certainly not worth sending back to Pedersoli. I am not under the illusion Italian makers quality is top tier, and certainly not that it has always been that way. It hasn't.

In fairness, neither has Winchester, Colt, or other American makers, or Miroku in Japan. We all know of good years and bad years. There are high profile examples of shoddy worksmanship and then a few years later they are basically perfect. It's the nature of manufacturing.

 

[Kabulrocks]

It could also be a Uberti Santa Fe Hawken. Those and the Armi San Marco made Hawken were both made almost exactly like this with the same trigger guards even.

Are you sure it’s a .50 caliber? The early Uberti rifles were actually .53, requiring a .520 ball.
That is a nice rifle which does indeed look like a Uberti/Ithacha.

 

[reddogge]

I was lucky to get one of the Ithaca Hawken kits in the late 70s. It's well built but my only two complaints are the long LOP (14 1/2"), a full inch too long for me, and the lock panels which are too large. I may address those issues this winter.

 

[lexington1]

For those of you curious (I know I was). I checked for marks under the barrel. The only two I found were these. I was quite surprised to find that it had a Douglas XX barrel!

 

[andy52]

Take a look here. I'd say without a doubt, someone built it from a kit and removed the stamping on the barrel.
https://grrw.org/ithaca-hawken-ithaca-gun-co/

If I'm not wrong, didn't Allen make kits also about the same time.

 

[LME]

As I wrote before, with respect to the Ithaca, I have no personal experience. This was what I heard from others and what I read on bulletin boards or in magazines at the time.

As for the quality of Uberti, what they produce now, after being purchased by Beretta, is not the same as before Beretta bought them.

Watch some of the detailed comparison videos of older Uberti's completely broken down. There are lots of tooling marks, burrs, and very sharp edges.

Italian imports in the 80's and 90's were cheap. They made the sport accessible. In many cases, they were the only option. They were not noted for their correctness or quality. The 2nd Gen Colt cap and ball revolvers were miles ahead of their Italian contemporaries, even as the backstrap and top-strap rough forgings came from Uberti. The finish machining was done by Colt and later by Iver Johnson to Colt specifications, and inspected by Colt.

I owned several Italian made guns. I still own some and bought two more in just the last two years. Of the Italian makers of muzzleloaders, Pedersoli is widely considered to be the top (that's subjective, but their prices reflect that). I have their Rocky Mountain Hawken. It's a very nice rifle, cost almost as much as a Kibler kit, and I paid extra for the fancy maple stock. It's reasonably correct as a half-stock plains rifle, better than the Lyman Great Plains Rifle (another Italian gun I own), but the browning of the barrel is off. The color is right, but it is very thin. The wood finish is off. The character in the wood looks almost fake with some sort of weird grain reflection. It feels off. At a distance it looks great.

More recently, I paid over US$1000 for a Pedersoli Remington "Custom Target" which is supposed to be hand finished and not require any of the clean-up of the working surfaces Italian guns were infamous for 20+ years ago. The action does feel good. There is a very small burr scraping the side of the hammer. The loading lever catch just fell out of the dovetail the first time I lowered the loading lever. Once I degreased it, the front sight fell out of the dovetail. That's just lousy quality control, and that's from their premier product which is supposed to be hand fit.

I will give credit to Pedersoli on the fit - it's among the best I've ever seen of any maker. The stocks are excellent - really the feel and look of what I expected on the RMH. The lock-up is tight, no end-shake, and the action feels very smooth with a crisp break. I'm not really upset. I can stake the dovetail pieces myself - it's certainly not worth sending back to Pedersoli. I am not under the illusion Italian makers quality is top tier, and certainly not that it has always been that way. It hasn't.

In fairness, neither has Winchester, Colt, or other American makers, or Miroku in Japan. We all know of good years and bad years. There are high profile examples of shoddy worksmanship and then a few years later they are basically perfect. It's the nature of manufacturing.

I got my Hawkin,s in the early eighties. I got it to hunt with also because it looked likema Hawkin which I liked.

As I wrote before, with respect to the Ithaca, I have no personal experience. This was what I heard from others and what I read on bulletin boards or in magazines at the time.

As for the quality of Uberti, what they produce now, after being purchased by Beretta, is not the same as before Beretta bought them.

Watch some of the detailed comparison videos of older Uberti's completely broken down. There are lots of tooling marks, burrs, and very sharp edges.

Italian imports in the 80's and 90's were cheap. They made the sport accessible. In many cases, they were the only option. They were not noted for their correctness or quality. The 2nd Gen Colt cap and ball revolvers were miles ahead of their Italian contemporaries, even as the backstrap and top-strap rough forgings came from Uberti. The finish machining was done by Colt and later by Iver Johnson to Colt specifications, and inspected by Colt.

I owned several Italian made guns. I still own some and bought two more in just the last two years. Of the Italian makers of muzzleloaders, Pedersoli is widely considered to be the top (that's subjective, but their prices reflect that). I have their Rocky Mountain Hawken. It's a very nice rifle, cost almost as much as a Kibler kit, and I paid extra for the fancy maple stock. It's reasonably correct as a half-stock plains rifle, better than the Lyman Great Plains Rifle (another Italian gun I own), but the browning of the barrel is off. The color is right, but it is very thin. The wood finish is off. The character in the wood looks almost fake with some sort of weird grain reflection. It feels off. At a distance it looks great.

More recently, I paid over US$1000 for a Pedersoli Remington "Custom Target" which is supposed to be hand finished and not require any of the clean-up of the working surfaces Italian guns were infamous for 20+ years ago. The action does feel good. There is a very small burr scraping the side of the hammer. The loading lever catch just fell out of the dovetail the first time I lowered the loading lever. Once I degreased it, the front sight fell out of the dovetail. That's just lousy quality control, and that's from their premier product which is supposed to be hand fit.

I will give credit to Pedersoli on the fit - it's among the best I've ever seen of any maker. The stocks are excellent - really the feel and look of what I expected on the RMH. The lock-up is tight, no end-shake, and the action feels very smooth with a crisp break. I'm not really upset. I can stake the dovetail pieces myself - it's certainly not worth sending back to Pedersoli. I am not under the illusion Italian makers quality is top tier, and certainly not that it has always been that way. It hasn't.

In fairness, neither has Winchester, Colt, or other American makers, or Miroku in Japan. We all know of good years and bad years. There are high profile examples of shoddy worksmanship and then a few years later they are basically perfect. It's the nature of manufacturing.

I can't say about now but my two Hawkin rifles were as nice as one could expect from a factory. As I said before mine were the last two sold and could have been prototypes sent to Ithaca for approval being they were the last ones? I didn't even know that Berreta bought Uberti out? Of all the M.L. I have purchased all performed well C.V.A. Big bore Mountain rifle, Lyman plains rifle and my Ithaca never had a bad one. Guess I am fortunate? I never had a issue with any of them. I guess things were better made in the eighties ?

 

[TxGR]

I got my Hawkin,s in the early eighties.
[snip]
I can't say about now but my two Hawkin rifles were as nice as one could expect from a factory.
[snip]

Is it possible those were the last of the Navy Arms production in the US, before they started rebadging the Uberti design?

From the article linked above:

The Ithaca/Navy Arms Hawken was built entirely in the U.S. using the same tooling, dies, parts and specifications that Ithaca had used. The only difference between these early Ithaca/Navy Arms Hawken rifles and the Ithaca Hawken rifles was the barrel markings.

Sometime in the 1980’s, Navy Arms stop building the rifle in the U.S. and started importing Uberti’s Hawken rifle from Italy, but continued to market it and stamp the barrels as the Ithaca/Navy Arms Hawken rifle.

The point is you're happy with your two rifles and they've served you well.