hawken questions, sights and such

[ekacpuc]

I've got a investarm .50 hawken kit from cabelas. Think a guy could hit a 300 yard gong with the right sights? Using a roundball of course.. I've made long shots with a bb gun so I don't see why not...

I'd really like to put a vernier peep sight on it. The only front globe sight that will fit my dovetail is .464" tall (lyman). Will that work with the tall tang mounted vernier sights? At least with that short globe I could keep the original front sights as "backup sights". My idea is I could make marks for the yardage on the vernier sights..

I was also lookin (as a backup plan instead of vernier) at lyman's 57SML peep sight. They said I may need to drill and tap but it appears to just use the rear tang screw.. Any thoughts? I suppose this is the ideal sight anyways.. Accuracy at range with the ability to remove the disk and use it as a "ghost ring" for low light levels..

I may shoot one buck one day but I don't like cleaning/hanging them so mostly will shoot targets.


Greg

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

Sure you could hit the gong, if you aim in the right place and the wind isn't blowing.

A really hot load in a .50 caliber gun that gives a muzzle velocity of 2100 fps will have to be aimed 165 inches above the center of the 300 yard target if it is sighted in for 50 yards. That's only 13 3/4 feet high.

Now, if a cross wind was blowing at a steady 5 MPH you would also have to aim 48 inches towards the direction the wind was blowing from.
So, with this 5 MPH wind and a 300 yard target your going to aim 4 feet into the wind and 13 3/4 feet high.

I hope you don't have to knock the target over because your 2100 fps velocity will have fallen to about 600 fps with a remaining energy of 139 ft/lbs. :grin:

If you had a tang mounted sight that was 31" from the front sight you would have to move it up from a 50 yard setting about .47 inches to be aiming for a 13 3/4 feet drop at 300 yards.

Knowing this, if you move the rear sight up 1/32" less than 1/2" from a 50 yard zero setting and aimed 4 feet to the right or left (depending on which side the wind is blowing from) you'll hit close to dead center.

 

[ekacpuc]

Yeah I just wanted to hit it. Thanks for the great info!


So a vernier sight would do the trick nicely.. How well would it work with a short .464" front globe? Is that too short. I don't see why it would matter how tall the front sight was other than if it's low perhaps you'd have to cram your cheak into the butt?


So almost a half inch of adjustment is needed if its sighted at 50 yards. Does the lyman 57SML have enough adjustment?



Greg

 

[MercerLake]

:v The 57SML mounts using the tang hole with a longer screw, also requires a second screw at the front of the sight base.
Your tang may or may not be tapped, if not it's an easy job to drill and tap the necessary hole. Mount the sight base using the tang screw and then mark the front hole location using the front hole in the sight base.
Depending on the profile of your tang you may not have enough vertical adjustment with a high front sight.
You could determine this prior to spending hard earned money by some measurements using a magnetic level on the top flat of the barrel and a vise to hold the barrel level. Then use the level or a tight string parallel to the top flat at whatever height of the front sight. The distance from the string to the tang plus the required additional elevation ofa 1/2" would indicate if this setup is feasable.
A simple ladder sight mounted on the tang would provide a greater range of elevation adjustment than the Lyman 57SML:v

 

[Rifleman1776]

The peep is fine if you are shooting for fun. Most clubs will not allow for matches unless it is in a special 'any metallic sights' match.
Peeps (for most people) are not practical for hunting.
Which begs the question: Why?

 

[sc45-70]

Peeps (for most people) are not practical for hunting.
Which begs the question: Why?[/quote]
I can't speak for anybody else, but for me it is almost impossible to see the target in low light with a peep sight.
SC45-70

 

[Rifleman1776]

Peeps (for most people) are not practical for hunting.
Which begs the question: Why?

I can't speak for anybody else, but for me it is almost impossible to see the target in low light with a peep sight.
SC45-70[/quote]

I was really referring to sight/target acquisition while hunting. When hunting we are forced to hold the rifle and look various directions when game presents itself. On the range we do each shot the same way. However, I have to admit the Lyman 'ghost' ring sight was a popular hunting sight for many years. Some can do it. I know I can't.

 

[sc45-70]

Peeps (for most people) are not practical for hunting.
Which begs the question: Why?

I can't speak for anybody else, but for me it is almost impossible to see the target in low light with a peep sight.
I forgot to say "while hunting"
SC45-70

I usually hunt in brush or timber and if the light is not perfect I can not see the animal I want to shoot at in the peep sight.

 

[tg]

"Why?"

From what I have seen most use a peep to gain an advantage in sighting over what the original guns used and a few use them to compensate for aging eyes, the latter is quite honorable, the first not so much talking hunting here not target shooting, if one steps back into ML hunting and they have good vision then trys to gain every edge over the technology in place in the past...that is where the big WHY? comes into play for me. I have never been able to grasp this mindset, unfortunately most jurisdictions have given into this type of thing for Derer hunting so few are really using trdaitional gear and please forgo the lecture on steel barrels and peep sights on crossbows in the 14th century, my '70 Ford Pinto wagon had wheels and had an engine with a designated horespower but it would not pass as a 19th century wagon being pulled by horses, which is a very similar way of rationalizing, flame away, but I am protected by the legions so no flame will touch me.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

A rear peep with a large aperture is the fastest of all iron sights as well as the most accurate under any conditions, that has been proved over and over. The U.S. military went to peep sights with the M1917 Enfield rifle and all rifles since have had peeps. Do you suppose they don't fight in low light? Of course there are times when it is too dark to aim with any sort of iron sight, that's when scopes and night vision equipment come in, but short of that a peep is the best of iron sights. Lots of people like those plastic things called "fire sights" or some other catchy name but they are fragile, which is the last thing I want on a hunting rifle. I find a plain white bead to be more visible in really low light than are the plastic things and it won't dazzle and blur out in bright light like the plastic things do.

 

[ekacpuc]

I didn't expect such a debate.. Interesting though. I do most my shooting at a range. I may one day wanna take a deer but just one. I'm not to into the meat nor do I wanna prep one.

I just didn't see why you couldn't use a vernier tang sight with a .464" front sight. That way I could use the original rear sight on it if I ever get the temptation to go hunting.

To each thier own.


Greg

 

[2ELK]

I have a GPR in .54 with a Lyman tang mounted aperature rear sight with a 1:32 twist barrel. I wanted to use it for our monthly silhouette match at 200 meters. I was able to hit a 12 inch gong offhand using saboted bullets if I did my part. Once the sight was zeroed, the gun shot well. The aperature sight has easy to turn knurled knobs with distinctive clicks for target type shooting. There was still plenty of elevation remaining if you wanted to shoot farther. I used the sabots to help speed up my reloading and utilyze an increase in velocity of the smaller bullet to help knock over the steel animals.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Which is why I make my peep sights folding. So I can fold them down and use the regular sights. :hmm:

 

[hockeyref]

Zonie,
Not doubting you, but I gotta ask where you got your numbers.... Being a HP and LR shooter I like ballistic numbers.. haha :thumbsup:

But 19MOA for a full value 5mph wind... WOW!

 

[Zonie]

One of our members posted a link to his site where he offers his free ballistics calculator for roundballs. It will run on any of the newer Windows systems.

It is a Zip file so if you download it you will have to unzip it before storing it on your computer.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html

I use the Lyman Black Powder Handbook to figure out what velocities a given caliber/powder load will give and then plug the velocity into the Roundball Calculator.