Hawken shotgun?

[asbrown]

I'm doing research to build a Hawken shotgun. Records show that they built them, but noone seems to have ever seen one. Anybody have pictures or line drawings I could work from?

 

[asbrown]

I'd even appreciate it if you only know someone who might know someone who might be related to someone who might be able to help.

 

[LaBonte]

So far none have been absolutley idntified as being made by the Hawken Bros. John Baird's two books on the Hawken Rifles have some pictures of shotguns from the era and IIRC one was conjectured to be made by them it is a typical percussion double barrel shotgun of the 1840's thru the 1850's.
Most likely the Bros Hwken probably did not build that many if at all (yes the period adverts imply that but...). In all liklihood they imported most of their double guns from England and/or Belgium and then may have stamped their name on them, which was commonly done by many vendors of imported goods back in the day.

 

[asbrown]

Thanks for the help. Thankfully I'm just trying to create what a single barrel halfstock Hawken shotgun may have looked like. I'm nowhere near the skill level to build a double.

 

[jeffdrown]

I have a TC Hawkins 50 cal...can I have it made into a smoothbore. Bore barrel just enough to get rifling out ..????

 

[LaBonte]

Thanks for the help. Thankfully I'm just trying to create what a single barrel halfstock Hawken shotgun may have looked like. I'm nowhere near the skill level to build a double.

Then I would look closely at the English made single barrel smoothbores of the period. The Hawken rifles were obviously influenced by both the rifles and smoohtbores being built by the English at that time(despite at least one sort of disclaimer by an author who knew better and had even made that statement himsleg earlier, but was on a bit of an anti-Hawken rant at the time he disclaimed it).
Double wedge or even a single wedge, scroll guard, etc. are some of the items that would be the basics to employ.

 

[BrownBear]

I have a TC Hawkins 50 cal...can I have it made into a smoothbore. Bore barrel just enough to get rifling out ..????

I "did it" after a fashion, putting a 62 cal GM smoothbore drop-in barrel on a TC Hawken. :barf:

I have to qualify that by saying that I intended it for shot only, rather than patched RB's. It was dandy with the RB's, but the stock configuration was really bad for my needs on upland game. I moved the barrel to a Renegade and it was better with shot, but still a far cry from a "shotgun" in terms of quick handling and pointing on fast game.

Sooooooooooooo, you can certainly do it, but the result depends on your tastes and what you want to do with it.

 

[jeffdrown]

BrownBear... does GM still make that barrel? Thanks again..Jeff

 

[Renegade Dan]

BrownBear... does GM still make that barrel? Thanks again..Jeff

jeffdrown
GM stopped making the 62 cal. smoothbore barrel a while ago. I wish they would bring them back. I still see used ones go up for sale every now and then. keep your eyes peeled, you just might find one :wink:

 

[varsity07840]

Thanks for the help. Thankfully I'm just trying to create what a single barrel halfstock Hawken shotgun may have looked like. I'm nowhere near the skill level to build a double.

Then I would look closely at the English made single barrel smoothbores of the period. The Hawken rifles were obviously influenced by both the rifles and smoohtbores being built by the English at that time(despite at least one sort of disclaimer by an author who knew better and had even made that statement himsleg earlier, but was on a bit of an anti-Hawken rant at the time he disclaimed it).
Double wedge or even a single wedge, scroll guard, etc. are some of the items that would be the basics to employ.

Pedersoli's Mortimer is a good example.

Duane

 

[asbrown]

So far my parts list includes a Carson style Hawken lock with the 1.75 throw. the barrel is from TOTW, the 75 dutch cut down to 38 inches. should leave it thick enough to solder on the rib and use it for RB if I want. They make a Hawken style breech for the 1 1/4" barrel. The standard Hawken rib, pipes,nosecap,and the flat griprail will work great for a shotgun. My concern is the stock shape, especially the wrist, cheekpiece, and the shape and size of the buttplate. With a 75 cal (11bore) theres plenty of recoil, too much for the standard narrow crescent shaped Hawken butt. I'm hoping to get some help in this area.

 

[BrownBear]

BrownBear... does GM still make that barrel? Thanks again..Jeff

jeffdrown
GM stopped making the 62 cal. smoothbore barrel a while ago. I wish they would bring them back. I still see used ones go up for sale every now and then. keep your eyes peeled, you just might find one :wink:

That's my understanding too. From what I see here on this site, as well as walking down the street, there's growing interest in bores larger than 54. Hopefully GM will hear that and bring it out, and that some of the gun manufacturers will get the message too.

Here's a fun experience for you: If you're going to be shooting with inline buddies, NEVER bring along a 50 cal traditional if you can avoid it. A 54 raises eyebrows, and a 58 or 62 pops open their mouths. Same with smoothbores. None can wait to try them, and pretty quick they're talking about getting their own traditional. Then you have to break the news to them about availability.

I'm not a marketing genius, but that looks like a real opportunity to me, as well as a way to help guys grow into traditionals.

 

[LaBonte]

My concern is the stock shape, especially the wrist, cheekpiece, and the shape and size of the buttplate. With a 75 cal (11bore) theres plenty of recoil, too much for the standard narrow crescent shaped Hawken butt. I'm hoping to get some help in this area.

If you're building a shotgun I would use a shotgun buttplate as the brothers would have used and not the typical rifle buttplate. Same way I would not use a cheekpiece which was used on rifles not shotguns of the era. IMO basing a Hawken Bros shotgun on their mtn rifle style is not going to make it correct, they would not have been built the same way.
You should get a hold of a copy of John Baird's two books on Hawken's - IIRC it's the second book that shows shotguns of the period, including one that may be a Hawken made item.

 

[asbrown]

You are certainly correct in assuming they would use the appropriate type buttplate for a Hawken shotgun. I guess I was hoping to see some sort of styling cue that would be exclusively theirs. I may just have to use the dual captured key's, slight fishbelly to the forearm, and the flat grip rail to pull off the look i am going for.

 

[BS]

Anybody have any info on these?

 

[Grenadier1758]

The best info would be in John Baird's books on the Hawken Rifle.

Hawken Rifles: The Mountain Man's Choice: Baird, John D.: 9780882270104: Amazon.com: Books

Fifteen Years in the Hawken Lode: John D. Baird: Amazon.com: Books