Hazmat

[hanshi]

I've been accused of "fishing" of late - just trying to get informed :grin: . Well here's another baited hook I'll throw into the water.

I always buy my powder online as many of you do. the hazmat fee is, of course, part of the full price. My question is: exactly what is the hazmat fee suppose to be for and what is accomplished with that extra fee? Is something special done to a hazmat order that costs extra or is it simply a "tax" :hmm: ?

When I order powder it is in a box and no better packaged than a table lamp. I don't see the money.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Maybe it goes to a special fund to pay the widows and orphans of the delivery drivers who are blown up while mishandling the powder. Must be a lot of money in the fund by now, huh? :grin:

 

[majg1234]

TAX

 

[Lonegun1894]

Couldn't agree more. Just another TAX, like we don't pay enough of them...

 

[biliff]

Supposedly the carriers are recouping the cost of complying with DOT regulations for shipping hazardous material. Not much different than the airlines charging $25 to transport your luggage. They do it because they can.

Not sure what the extra regulations entail, but those red hazmat stickers must be pretty spendy.

 

[outbackzack]

HAZMAT drivers cost more to train. Insurance for hazmat vehicles costs more. The funky little diamonds indicating what the hazmat is cost money. A copy of the MSDS in the vehicle costs money. The extra safety gear in the vehicle costs money.


You think it is silly on BP, but imagine having to placard above a certain amount of window cleaner. Juice concentrate is placarded. The regulations from the Federal DOT are crazy.

 

[Jim Blair]

Pretty much what Bill and Zack say.The DOT issues the regulations covering the shipment and handling of haz-mat cargo.The shippers who operate under permits from the Interstate Commerce Commision and the state commerce commissions are required to file the rates they charge for various services they provide.They all get together and sign an agreement on what they will charge.The haz-mat charge is what they consider it cost them to comply with DOT shipping regulations.A few years ago it was $15 per carton.

A friend moved to Sitka,Alaska,the only way he can get ammo,powder,etc. is by Fed-Ex.The closest place that has the required facility for handling haz-mat cargo is Juneau.

 

[hanshi]

I've had FedEx & UPS both deliver powder in their standard vans while also delivering simple odds & ends in the neighborhood. Maybe it is all up front but I still can't shake the feeling we're "being had". I think we've all gotten much too use to "being had" and are no longer bothered by it. :idunno:

 

[George T.]

I Swear that is Funny! :rotf:

I placed an order with Graff and Sons a while back and they charged me $27.50. THe box was heavy card board and the caps and powder were both in side of one another surounded with foam pea nuts.

They allowed me to buy both powder and caps on one Haz Mat. If you can affort a good sized it reduces the impact of this fee. I was able to get the cost per pound down to $14 by buying 14 pounds while on sale! Geo. T.

 

[hawkeye2]

Geo. T has made a good point. The Hazmat fee is per carton, 2 cartons, 2 fees. Buying on sale with all placarded items on one order and talking with the sales department to see how much they can fit in one box can save a lot of money. As strange as it seems paying shipping and a Hazmat fee on a large order can actually be cheaper than driving to the point of sales with gas prices what they are today.

 

[Jim Blair]

You're just seeing the last step of the processes involved shipping haz-mat.It's going to get worse.Wait'll DHS or ATFE sticks their nose in wanting tracking information and who is getting powder delivered to them lists.I'm surprised so far powder shipments and ammunition don't require signatures.

 

[fleener]

Congress shut done the ICC years ago. Everyone is right in that the companies use the fee to help cover their extra cost

Fleener

 

[Tumblernotch]

Geo. T has made a good point. The Hazmat fee is per carton, 2 cartons, 2 fees. Buying on sale with all placarded items on one order and talking with the sales department to see how much they can fit in one box can save a lot of money. As strange as it seems paying shipping and a Hazmat fee on a large order can actually be cheaper than driving to the point of sales with gas prices what they are today.

That's true but not good practice. It used to be that explosives (powder, Dynamite &c.) were not supposed to be shipped with blasting caps. I've had guys who used to be involved with explosives tell me that they wouldn't even ship them on the same truck. I know that percussion caps are more stable than blasting caps, but they can be set off by shock and in an accident there would be a possibility that they could detonate. By themselves, it would be bad enough, but in the same box as 5, 10, 50 lbs of powder? I know the odds are kind of long but it could happen. I kinda doubt a shipping company would do it if they knew powder and caps were in the same package. I know that most all of us have caps and powder in our shooting boxes. I do keep the few caps I have in another compartment away from the powder and placed where vibration is at a minimum and away from objects could hit the tin or capper.

 

[Jim Blair]

1995 to be exact.It's all under the DOT now.They have three departments doing the same thing one previously did,Surface Transportation Board,Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration,and Bureau of Transportation Statistics.Old habit calling it the ICC,family was in the business from when they still used horses and wagons to haul stuff till 1986.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Government is notorious for makeing a regulation that will help no one.. hinder most every one and cahrge you to hire the IQ deficient DMV flunky to enforce it....

The hazmat fee is to pay for operations like "fast and furious" to prove that you need more watching and regulating.

 

[Jim Blair]

The haz-mat fee goes to the shipper not the government if I'm not mistaken.

 

[DUSTY 14]

lots of people handle anything i get delivered before it goes into that brown truck that runs thru our neighborhoods. when i was younger and worked pulling freight and loading trucks, if a controlled product sat on the dock or was loaded into a truck not placarded correctly and it got inspected it was h*ll to pay. and remember everything they can poke on a commercial flight is jambed on there and i do not want to be setting on 25 pounds of BP at 30000ft
the way they throw stuff into the hold on planes.

 

[fleener]

your not even close. The goverment does not see a penny of the hazmat fees that the carriers charge you, they keep 100% of it.

Also, plain black powder is prohibited to fly on a plane in the USA.

It can fly if it is made into a cartridge or a shell.

Fleener

 

[Little Wattsy]

your not even close. The goverment does not see a penny of the hazmat fees that the carriers charge you, they keep 100% of it.



Fleener

Ill admit I dont "KNOW" but I seriously doubt its a "free" add on to the seller or someone would drop it to be more competitive... It may be for REQUIRED government WASTE errrr paperwork but if it was just "free money" it would be eaten on orders big enough; in a dog eat dog world ANY pricing advantage is just good business... IF the gooberment waste and fraud requires paperwork/regulatory filings then the money is still wasted by the government and very neary akin to taking the money themselves.

 

[fleener]

not too much in life is free.

If you consider having a bill of lading that describes the hazardous materials, labels on the package that identifies it, training for the drivers on how to safely transport HM and placards on the trucks that let the first responders know there is HM on that vehicle that they are responding to when it is on fire with that family of five trapped underneath it a waste of money, then you are right it is.

Put yourself in the place of the first responder. Would you want to roll up to the accident and not have any idea what haz mat you have on board? Or that it was not packaged properly or loaded on the truck properly?

How about explosives and poison gas loaded on the same trailer? Poisons loaded on top of your kids coco puffs and other food stuffs, bet you would like to make sure that does not happen.

That is the kind of stuff your haz mat fees help pay for.

fleener