Help a newbie out

[warhawk77]

I have been reading up on BP for a while and now it's time to jump in. But I needs some advice before I buy anything else. I will be range shooting I don't plan on going to matches or anything like that. Also I'm a huge military history fan(mostly WWI & WWII) and these are part of our history.

I'm looking at the replicas of the 1851 and 1860. The ones I'm look at are $200-250 range so they are not the best ones out there but not the bottom of the barrel. I know I want the steel frame as it is stronger.

Would one be a better starter then the other?


The 1851 comes in 36 and 44 I'm leaning toward the 44 because its a little bigger and looks like its easier to find that size locally. But the 36 being smaller might be better for my kids to shoot.

Is there a big difference in the recoil of two?


My thought is if I invest in a cheaper handgun and I don't enjoy it I'm not out a lot of cash. But if I do enjoy it I can buy a better handgun later.

Thanks for looking and input is welcome

 

[bpd303]

If you do enjoy it, you will be hooked and will want every caliber and type. For starters I would go with an 1851 Remington Army in 44. As far as recoil it is subjective and I don't find the recoil of a 44 objectionable. For the kids I just down loaded it with less powder and when mine were little they had no problem shooting any of them.
BTW welcome to the forum & BP shooting. I also collect & shoot milsurp arms of all types including BP cartridge but we don't mention them here.. :v :grin:

 

[warhawk77]

Thanks for the info. Yeah I know if I like it I will be buying one of everything. I have been reading posts here for a few months but couldn't decide if I was ready to jump in or not.

While talking to my dad last night about black powder to reminded me I have a muzzle loader at his house still hanging on the wall where I left it 15 years ago. It was his when I was growing up. Ad he told me he has some handguns that where my great grandmothers I could have next time I'm down to see him. So sounds like its time to jump in.

 

[hawkeye2]

I would commend a Remington pattern revolver for a beginner as you won't have to deal with the cap related jams that the Colt type replicas are plagued with and with the barrel wedge too. It's not that those things can't be overcome but they can be slightly frustrating for a beginner. The 1858 Remington doesn't have the romantic appeal or the natural pointability the Colts do but they are more user friendly. There isn't much difference in the recoil of a .36 or a .44 and you don't have to load either to max capacity. 20 grains of 3f is plenty for a .44 and 15 grains works well in a .36. A pound of powder will go a long ways in a revolver. BTW the .36 and .44 Remingtons are built using the same frame so there is no reason to go to a .36 if you are looking for a smaller revolver.

Cabella's regularly has the Remingtons on sale and if you aren't concerned with historical accuracy the 5.5 inch barrel Remington is a little lighter and handier.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

Black powder burns at a slower speed than modern powders.

Because of this they don't have the quick hard slap during recoil that modern guns do.

Either the .36 or the .44 will "kick" fairly gently but with power. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't shot black powder but after you shoot your new pistols (or a rifle) you will know what I mean.

From a historical standpoint the Colt 1851 was a .36 caliber gun.

It is the gun and caliber the Confederates described in their bids for anyone wanting to build pistols for them and the Confederates used brass frames on their reproductions of the Colt 1851.

Although many Union personnel bought their own pistols the .44 cal Colt 1860 Army was the preferred pistol.

Both of these shoot with a satisfactorily large cloud of smoke. The .36 with a slight "crack" to its report and the .44 with a resounding "Boom".

Their both great fun.

 

[AZbpBurner]

For new guns in retail sales, the choice of revolver manufacturers is largely between Uberti and Pietta. Both are top quality manufacturers and both now use state-of-the-art manufacturing equipment.

I shop by price rather than by manufacturer, and it is just happenstance that all my Colts seem to be Uberti, while all my Remingtons are Pietta.

My favorite (OK ONE of my favorite) 1858 Remingtons is the .44 "sheriff's model" with the 5 1/2" barrel. It points quickly and there's no perceptible accuracy disadvantage because of the shorter barrel. A good, mild and universally accurate load for .44's from Remingtons to Colts is 23-25 gr. 3F Black powder, or equivalent volume of Pyrodex P. While there is definite recoil, it is comfortable, easy to shoot & the kids will enjoy it.

OTOH, I like to occasionally load the .36 Remington on the hot side & it snaps & barks with authority, although, the lighter loads have much better accuracy.

To get an idea of current prices, take a look at the Cabela's Website - the Remingtons are around $229 this week, and seem to be subject to change at their whim. Compare current prices at MidwayUSA, Midsouth, Jedediah-Starr, and the other places everyone else will add to this thread.

Look also at total price, to include shipping and keep in mind that some places also charge sales tax, while others don't. If you're not in a hurry, some sellers will drop the price of something on backorder. My $178 Remington was a backorder purchase & as I recall, it didn't take more than a few weeks to arrive.

Colt vs Remington? Someday you'll have both, but IMO, Remingtons have fewer screws and are quicker & easier to disassemble, clean & reassemble than Colts.

Almost 45 years ago, my Dad brought home a beautiful 1861 Colt (.36 cal). It became MY job as a kid to clean & maintain it. Several decades later I got my first Remington & I sure wish I had grown up cleaning IT instead.

To start out for the kids, the Remington sights are more child-friendly than the notch-in-the-hammer Colt design, although once you've mastered becoming a Colt shooter, accuracy is amazing.

 

[necchi]

Another vote for the 58 Remington in .44 as a starter, you can shoot lower charges if recoil is an issue.
Then "graduate" to the Colt 51 in .36

Esp with kids you want the gun to go Bang, bang, bang,,
not Bang/jam, bang/jam, bang/jam.

There's a learning curve with the colts and it takes a little practice to become proficient, not that you won't get it sooner or later,, it's just more fun from the start to just shoot.

 

[warhawk77]

Thanks for all the info.

I never thought about using less powder for lighter recoil, That is one of many things I will need to pick up on.

So it sounds like I should not get a colt as my first no problem. And I don't mind going with a 1858 model to start with. If I enjoy it like I think I will I will be buying a few different ones any way

Few more follow up questions

How many shoot handguns with brass frames? Do they fail after a few thousand rounds or last forever if maintained?

I see AZbpBurner said the Uberti and Pietta are both top quality but how about Traditions? They are cheaper so guessing not a good quality?


I see cabelas has the 1958 on sale for $199, really wish there was one close to me. A 2 hour drive one way won't really save me anything.

I do see a problem, After I get the pistol I will have to get a matching period rifle right? :grin:

 

[cynthialee]

I have a brass frame I shoot. Providing I don't hot load it should last a long time.

Traditions sells Pietta guns.

 

[rodwha]

The brass framed pistols will last a lifetime as long as your powder charge is kept within reason (20-25 grns). They cannot handle a full chamber of powder for long.

The Traditions is a Pietta.

I know Cabelas has $5 shipping on orders over $99 recently. Guess it's over?

 

[warhawk77]

Thanks for that info on brass frames.


Tradition being Pietta is great news also. Cheaper than dirt has those but I know there shipping is higher.

Cabelas is charging tax and $17 shipping but still cheaper then the other places. I have never ordered from them so need to set up a account.

Can hardly wait :wink:

 

[hawkeye2]

If you have a Cabela's Visa and use it the shipping is $5, good enough reason to apply for one.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Lots of good advice so far.

Suggest you also consider a used revolver. I have found many good deals over the years at gun shows. Also, pawn shops sometimes will make you a good deal.

Just be careful when shopping for a used black powder revolver. Check them out carefully for proper function, bore issues, poorly done home gunsmithing, etc.

The money you save buying used can buy shooting supplies and if you want to sell the gun you might get all your money back.

Best of good luck whichever way you decide to go.

 

[warhawk77]

I thought about used but I haven't seen anything local. Our pawn shops don't sale firearms, they get shipping to home offices and go on gun broker.

I'm going to keep looking at the few places I know but no luck so far.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Cabelas just had a sale on brass framed Pietta Remmies for $199 and $5 shipping to your door in most of the US. I paid that a year ago for a steel framed Remmie and free shipping from them.

You can load them down to squib shots if you want.

The Remmies don't have quite the romance of the colt's repros, but are indeed as others have said easier to operate. The Colt repros offer a bigger range of guns from the little pocket models up to the giant Walker. For a jump in learner, go with the remmie in 44.

Used repros are a gamble. some are good quality and some have gritty feeling insides that aren't properly hardened and break easily. When an orphan gun breaks and the company went out of business 30 years ago, where will you get parts? Current makes have the advantage of parts availability. Also, some folks have modified their repros, experimenting on alterations that may have destroyed the guns' utility, or an unscrupulous person accidentally cross threaded a nipple and glued it in and quick sells it.

A new gun on sale, has it's own set of break in tasks, such as cleaning, getting to know how to load it etc. The added frustration of saving $40 to buy somebody elses troubles and a possibly useless gun, just isn't worth the trouble for a beginner. Once you have a few years and have learned the ropes, then maybe you want to take a chance on a fixer upper. But at least go into it with your eyes open.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Thanks for that info on brass frames.


Tradition being Pietta is great news also. Cheaper than dirt has those but I know there shipping is higher.

Cabelas is charging tax and $17 shipping but still cheaper then the other places. I have never ordered from them so need to set up a account.

Can hardly wait :wink:

Cabelas has a promo code for $5 flat rate shipping for any purchases $99 & over: 63SUMMER

It's good until 6/25/2013

 

[Zonie]

Boy! I must be getting old.

It seems like only yesterday a brass framed C&B revolver was only selling for $129.

If it was a steel framed pistol it was around $180. :hmm:

 

[bpd303]

We're all getting older. I bought my '58 Remington .44 brass frame new in '62, ya ready for this it cost me $75.00 and it's still going strong. :grin:

 

[AZbpBurner]

Boy! I must be getting old.

It seems like only yesterday a brass framed C&B revolver was only selling for $129.

If it was a steel framed pistol it was around $180. :hmm:

Not THAT Old! Only last year, I got a Pietta Sheriff's Model 1858 for $179 & free shipping from Cabelas - but they price like that occasionally when trying to line up buys during a backorder.

 

[tsafa]

I'll just repeat what other said. Remington 1858 in .44 cal. Best gun ever.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Sho...=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680;cat104503680

You'll have to file down the front sight in order to zero it in from a benched shooting position. Over 40 grains of Black Powder this has even more power then .45 ACP.