HELP!!! Breech Issue?

[chorizo]

Just installed a new breech plug on a renegade barrel. Not hard at all. As a note to all, there is VERY little for a 11/16th" plug tip to seal against inside the bore on a 58 caliber, with the bottom of the grooves barely visible. Essentially you are seating against the lands. The face of the breech plug fitted tight and flush to the barrel face is that much more important, but not difficult to achieve with a file, a vice and some Prussian blue marking paste. Track of the Wolf has some great instructions on how to do it.

@SDSmlf tutored me and "talked" me through it on line. It worked out fine.

 

[SDSmlf]

I'd love to see your hand fitted breech plugs.

The only way you're going to get a seal that doesn't include the lead of the thread is to rebate that thread diameter. Turning the OD down until you're below the root diameter of the thread. Then you can have a real seal that includes no threads.

But that's impossible to do if you don't have a mating surface inside the barrel breech area.

And to get a small female surface inside the barrel to mate with that small male plug surface would take some true custom design and machining to get there.

Most folks aren't going to go through that kind of expense. Because it's simply overkill.

In your mind you are correct, without some true custom design and machining you will not get there. It’s impossible without a modern and complete tool room. Suggest you do not attempt. Now those with an open mind, like Mr @chorizo, can easily figure out how to do it with their tool room equipped with a few files, a bench vise, a square and some Prussian Blue. Yes I helped him, but it was really just encouragement as he pretty much had it figured out before we discussed the finer details.

Back to the OP’s thread which has been hijacked. What you have has been done many times in the past and it works. Some say the threads are too long/deep. I don’t particularly like the ‘custom’ fitting, but it happens. Contemporary manufacturers could simply shorten things up a bit and not need to plow a flash channel in the breech plug face. If it bothers you, make noise until the manufacturer corrects things. You paid good money for that right.

Here are some photographs of a project gun I picked which takes your concerns to a new level, though some will say it’s no big concern. This one has the vent hole angled and coming through center of the breech plug. Might be an in-line? Wonder if we can talk about it here. Don’t pay attention to the sewer pipe condition of the bore.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

In your mind you are correct, without some true custom design and machining you will not get there. It’s impossible without a modern and complete tool room. Suggest you do not attempt. Now those with an open mind, like Mr @chorizo, can easily figure out how to do it with their tool room equipped with a few files, a bench vise, a square and some Prussian Blue. Yes I helped him, but it was really just encouragement as he pretty much had it figured out before we discussed the finer details.

Back to the OP’s thread which has been hijacked. What you have has been done many times in the past and it works. Some say the threads are too long/deep. I don’t particularly like the ‘custom’ fitting, but it happens. Contemporary manufacturers could simply shorten things up a bit and not need to plow a flash channel in the breech plug face. If it bothers you, make noise until the manufacturer corrects things. You paid good money for that right.

Here are some photographs of a project gun I picked which takes your concerns to a new level, though some will say it’s no big concern. This one has the vent hole angled and coming through center of the breech plug. Might be an in-line? Wonder if we can talk about it here. Don’t pay attention to the sewer pipe condition of the bore.

Hate to tell you but I have been doing it by hand without any machine shop for over 40 years. Any barrel that has been properly bottom tapped will have about 1.5 threads on bottom of the breech plug hole that are slightly beveled and not full threads.. There are two simple methods to deal with that. 1 you can grind the first couple threads off a bottoming tap and then re-cut the threads. 2 you could slightly bevel the first couple of threads on the breech plug. Either of these methods allows the breech plug to seal against the face at the end of the bore. Any book I have seen on building a Muzzle loader has documented one or both of these process. They didn't have machine shops 250 years ago they did all these things by hand with tools that they made themselves.
On your project gun with the angled touch hole. As far back as that touch hole is I think I would have drilled a chamber in the breech plug and then after the breech plug is installed drill the touch hole straight into it or do a vent liner if there was enough room. Drilling at an angle like that makes for an awful long touch hole.

 

[SDSmlf]

Hate to tell you but I have been doing it by hand without any machine shop for over 40 years.

No disappointed here. Believe I started getting guidance in the process between 1976 and 1978. And if you read what I said about the tool room, it was pure sarcasm.

can easily figure out how to do it with their tool room equipped with a few files, a bench vise, a square and some Prussian Blue.

All I have done with my ‘project gun‘ is run a borescope down the bore.

Now I would appropriate your your expert opinion on the gun. It appears the breech plug may be welded in place. How have you corrected this type of challenge? Looking forward to seeing your description and photographs on how to remove and reinstall. Something I have never attempted.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Don't ever take a (so called) Beretta tri centennial shotgun apart....you'll be having nightmares for weeks!

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I bought a new Pedersoli An IX Gendarmerie pistol and here is the breech face:

View attachment 216039

As you can clearly see, they machines a groove in the breech face where the vent hole is. Maybe the plug was too long and wouldn’t line up with the vent?

What issues does this pose? It will be tough to clean I know that much. Is it a safety issue?

I got this gun for a great price. Pedersoli loves to pull shoddy stuff like this with their products. But is it a big issue?

Thanks!

That is the proper way to notch a breech plug. You're good to go. The plug does not need replacing. Semper Fi.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to polish the groove in the breech plug? I fired the gun and while ignition was very reliable, the lock doing a great job, I had a few times where the flash didn’t ignite the main charge even when running a vent pick through.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

No disappointed here. Believe I started getting guidance in the process between 1976 and 1978. And if you read what I said about the tool room, it was pure sarcasm.


All I have done with my ‘project gun‘ is run a borescope down the bore.

Now I would appropriate your your expert opinion on the gun. It appears the breech plug may be welded in place. How have you corrected this type of challenge? Looking forward to seeing your description and photographs on how to remove and reinstall. Something I have never attempted.

Never claimed to be an expert but have been building rifles and shooting competition since the 70s so I have accumulated some knowledge over the years. Your project gun looks like one of the early CVA Kentucky flintlock kits or possibly an Ultra High. The breech plugs in those things were way to long and the instructions with them actually told you to drill the touch hole at an angle. I used to know several guys who had those and The combination of the long touch hole and the manure lock made for very unreliable ignition. As you pointed out what passes for the breech plug and the tang are welded to the end of the barrel. I actually did fix one of those years ago, I put a new barrel on it for the guy. I then took the original barrel and cut it off at the face of the breech plug. From the face of the breech plug the hole extended another 5/16" to 3/8" and where the bore started it was not a flat face it was angled just like the drill bit that was used. What was supposed to be the breech plug was a rod that had been welded in, there were NO threads. This is just my observation of the one I worked on and no I will not post the name of the maker.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to polish the groove in the breech plug? I fired the gun and while ignition was very reliable, the lock doing a great job, I had a few times where the flash didn’t ignite the main charge even when running a vent pick through.

I use regular black powder solvent and pipe cleaners through the touch hole. Occasionally, I'll spray through the touch hole with brake parts cleaner when the residue wants to be stubborn. The breech plug on the 1st rifle I built when I was 16 has a notched breech plug. I'm now 67. After thousands of rounds through it, still shooting strong. Semper Fi.

 

[FlinterNick]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to polish the groove in the breech plug? I fired the gun and while ignition was very reliable, the lock doing a great job, I had a few times where the flash didn’t ignite the main charge even when running a vent pick through.

Gotta remove the breech to do it. 180 worked up to 400 paper in the groove very lightly polish the area.