help choosing a lock

[Sean E Bug]

I have decided that I want to build my first flint gun. what I have decided on so far that I want is poor boy long rifle, ash stock, 32 cal rice barrel, and iron mounting. trouble is I know the quality of the lock makes a big difference in how a gun shoots and reliability but I want to try and keep cost down as well. I am looking at a for a gun that is going to be slim and light I am considering a pedersoli lock, small siler, L&R queen anne or durs egg. what would you choose? or recommend avoiding?

 

[Art Caputo]

I would lean towards the small Siler. Have one on my SMR, and it looks nice, and works well.

 

[EC121]

I would use the Chambers Late Ketland. While there were Germanic locks used in the mountain rifles, more of them had English style locks. The southern colonies did more trade with England. A northern poorboy(schimmel stytle) might have had a Germanic lock. However, there is no hard answer so buy what you like. A simple rifle could have been made up from any available parts.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Chambers "late Ketland"
If this is your first, you want a lock that has the best chance of performing like it should out of the bag. Your odds go way down with the locks you mentioned other than the Chambers small siler.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Since @Sean E Bug wants a 32 caliber slim rifle, I suggest that the Chambers' small Siler lock or the L&R Manton lock would be the preferred choices over the larger late Ketland lock. All are excellent locks and all will require tuning for top performance.

 

[Artificer]

Chambers "late Ketland"
If this is your first, you want a lock that has the best chance of performing like it should out of the bag. Your odds go way down with the locks you mentioned other than the Chambers small siler.

Could not agree more!!

I've had bad, to good to some great locks over the years and a good/great lock is more than worth any added expense, as it will definitely allow you to enjoy the rifle so much more!

Gus

 

[JamesT]

I have decided that I want to build my first flint gun. what I have decided on so far that I want is poor boy long rifle, ash stock, 32 cal rice barrel, and iron mounting. trouble is I know the quality of the lock makes a big difference in how a gun shoots and reliability but I want to try and keep cost down as well. I am looking at a for a gun that is going to be slim and light I am considering a pedersoli lock, small siler, L&R queen anne or durs egg. what would you choose? or recommend avoiding?

Sounds like you know what you want and are describing an Eastern Tenn. Or Western North Carolina rifle. Study some photos of originals or handling an original is the best way to build one and see what it should look like. As most on here have suggested the rifle should have an English import lock. So a Jim Chambers Late Ketland, Davis Late English or L&R. Or even a Jim Kibler English lock. It will be a nice project to complete and then shoot them squirrels with. Below are a few originals with English locks.

 

[martin9]

Chambers late ketland, Kibler southern lock or rice nock lock. MUCH better locks than anything you listed and correct for a poor boy long rifle. So avoid everything you had in mind and get one of these. Building a rifle is a lot of work...don't try to save $50 by getting a sub par lock. I will also recommend a swamped barrel. MBS charges $225 for straight Rice barrels and $285 for swamped Rice barrels. That extra $60 is VERY much worth it.

 

[JamesT]

Building the gun in accordance to the school is an important to me. Swamped barrels are great but havnt seen many on an Appalachian rifle. Not to say they never did but ive handled and seen a few and own a couple as well. They are all straight walled and heavy. I have inlet barrels by hand I will tell you it is work! A swamped barrel will only compound the problems tenfold if doing it by hand.

 

[martin9]

Not really. I've inlet a couple dozen swamped barrels by hand with chisels. and 2 or 3 straight barrels. I don't notice the difference. A chisel only takes a cut at a time so the swamp doesn't complicate the process for me.

 

[martin9]

Also, plenty of examples of swamped southern guns...the Bogle rifle comes to mind. I believe one of the Soddys has a slight swamp. I do agree a lot of them are straight. The english lock is the most important part to me. I can't ever recall seeing something like a siler on an original southern gun.

 

[JamesT]

Yes the Bogle rifle I posted the lock pic of is tapered and flared. Many rifles had tapered barrels and some were flared again at the muzzle. Some were straight. Thats why I didnt say they never have this or that. Tapered and flared were common but when a new builder mentions swamped barrels I am imagining these drastically swamped barrels with a very narrow waist which in my humble opinion is definately not a desirable option. I am sitting here looking at a Jacob Gross and a A. Lawing and my family rifle out of Watauga in E. Tenn. and they are all straight as an arrow. Can't get much more Appalachian than those.
James

 

[Rifleman1776]

Since @Sean E Bug wants a 32 caliber slim rifle, I suggest that the Chambers' small Siler lock or the L&R Manton lock would be the preferred choices over the larger late Ketland lock. All are excellent locks and all will require tuning for top performance.

Good choices. But, do avoid Davis, I have had bad luck with both their products and service. Do understand, all locks may need some tuning and help.

 

[martin9]

I'm wondering what style rifle the OP wants. We all went straight to southern because of iron hardware and he said he wanted a poor boy. Lot a folks don't know the term Schimmel though so he may be wanting something more PA styled.

 

[JamesT]

I reckon he will have to say. I figured Southern since the ash stock and iron mounts. Havent seen many ash stocked PA guns. But again I am no authority on the matter. Id think even a plain Lehigh gun would have a brass guard and Maplewood. At least the ones ive seen do. I have handled a cherry stocked Berks Co. gun and have heard of some fruitwoods being used in PA.

 

[hanshi]

There isn't a lot I know about the subject, but I do have two SMRs. The lock on the .36 is the small Siler but the .32 has Chambers late Ketland. The barrel on the .36 is 38" X 3/4" straight barrel, while the .32 has the late Ketland lock and a 38" Rice "A" wgt tube. Both are featherweights.

 

[Sean E Bug]

I am certainly thinking along the lines of a southern gun. I have been looking at tvm southern, sitting fox appalachian, and schimmels. I defiantly don't know much about the different schools and makers to try and recreate something. I like the ethos of a humble and simple rifle that was within the reach of the common man. I have a couple underhammers because I like the sheer simplicity. I wonder how many guns were built by apprentices as they learned their trade. surely many of those were pretty rough. I am no master builder ... yet

 

[Artificer]

I wonder how many guns were built by apprentices as they learned their trade.

Hi Sean,

Apprentices built ONLY one complete gun during their entire apprenticeship. It was normally theirs to keep at the end of their apprenticeship. They used it during their journeyman period to show/prove their ability, if they decided to leave their Master's Shop after their apprenticeship period was over.

However, BEFORE and during each step of building that gun, they had been taught and practiced skills needed for each step before they did it on their apprenticeship gun. Further, they always had the Master close by to ask questions, make suggestions and supervise their work.

surely many of those were pretty rough. I am no master builder ... yet

While one should always be their own worst critic, so as to learn from mistakes and then improve the next time, I'm going to suggest not being too hard on yourself as you are learning and developing your skills. You don't have a Master to learn from daily for at least 7 years, as apprentices used to have. Just keep working to make each gun the best you can. Not everyone even back in the day became a Master, but that didn't mean they could not build a good gun after practice and experience.

Gus

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I bought a pair of L&R locks. They perform well. One of the sear levers chipped on the edge. I tried and happy to buy a spare. But L&R just sent me one for free just 10 days postage to Uk exceedingly good service. I do prefer original Bess lock but so much searching around £240-£360 each love them

 

[excess650]

Do NOT go cheap on a lock. Buy the Chambers late Ketland, or Kibler's similar lock.