Help from Flintlock hunting experts

[SDSmlf]

If you are at all handy putting things together (could you assemble model airplanes as a kid?) and have minimal wood working skills (you can follow instructions) seriously consider a Jim Kibler Colonial Rifle kit. Just checked his site and delivery on one in 45 caliber is one to two weeks. Price is just under a grand at $995. His contoured Rice barrel is 1.125 at the breech and .800 at the waste. Will not be barrel heavy. If you are serious I’d give him a call. You could visit his shop on a long day trip (he is in eastern Ohio) and actually handle some guns.

Not sure if the videos are on Kibler’s site, but he had a series of how to assembly videos posted on another forum that deals with American Long Rifles. PM if you need link.

 

[54ball]

A Great Plains is a great factory Percussion rifle....one, if not the best in it's class.

As flint though it's OK to pretty good.

This is not about period correct stuff but rather performance. TC, Investarms even Traditions have good locks and some do wonderful. As a whole...these are marginal. There's much better offerings.

The Cabelas Blue Ridge/Pedersoli Frontier...that's a pretty good lock and it's on par with say a Siler.

 

[Zonie]

The GPR's longer barrel will make it feel noticably more muzzle heavy than a TC.

If you don't like the feel of the Pedersoli you probably won't like the feel of a GPR.

TC did sell Hawken's with flintlocks.

The early ones locks were a bit iffie as far as flint life is concerned.
The locks were well made but the angle of the flint and the shape of the frizzen could wear out or break flints.

A few years before S&W bought out TC, TC came up with a much improved lock that corrected the problems.

Quite a few people took advantage of TC's offer to replace the cock (hammer) and frizzen which was done for free.

The problem is, a lot of people didn't make the change so most of the used guns on the market still have the old style locks.

With S&W pulling the strings, TC no longer offers the repair.

The old style cocks look like the one in this picture.
Notice the area just above the cock screw head has a undercut or notch that makes the shape look sorta like an "S".
That is the OLD style.

The new style cock did away with that undercut leaving more of a "blob" shape just above the screw head.

Old-TC-Lock by James, on Flickr

Look around on the web and if your lucky you can find a good used TC Flintlock Hawken with a new style lock.

Of course, if you find a TC Hawken Flintlock in good condition with the old style lock you can go ahead and try shooting it. If your lucky it won't eat up your flints.

If it does eat your flints L&R Lock company sells a very good flintlock replacement lock for the TC Hawken. On the down side it will cost over $150 (last time I looked) to buy it.

 

[CG6018]

If you do any pre-season scouting on that PA mountain, you might consider visiting Dixon's Muzzleloader Shop in Berks Co., located in southeastern PA. Greg Dixon now owns the shop after Chuck's retirement, and the shop offers a good selection of Lyman flintlocks as well as custom long guns.

You would be hard pressed to find a more knowledgeable gentleman than Greg, and he would take all the time necessary to discuss flintlocks with you. Check out their website, and consider a weekend visit to the shop if your PA travels bring you through the eastern part of the state.

Good hunting! :thumbsup:

 

[fleener]

A option for you might be the TC flinter with black plastic stock and stainless barrel.

These are very light. Not sure I really like them, but the price was right......

My son won a new unfired one in June at the NMLRA Spring matches.

fleener

 

[fleener]

I should add that the only reason I am not in love with that rifle is that a flintlock should not be stainless or black plastic stock.

We have not fired it yet, kinda forgot about it to be honest.

Fleener

 

[excess650]

That stainless synthetic TC FL is the Firestorm. They have a removeable breech plug, so not a patent breech like earlier TCs. They were also made with blued barrels.

There is Fort Chambers Gunshop right off I-81 at the Scotland exit, just north of Chambersburg. I would suggest calling and see what FLs he has in stock before driving up, but he'll have a variety of both production and customs in the rack. He'll also have BP, flints, and most everything else you might need.

 

[malfakir]

Thank you. Great site and very pretty looking guns. That fancy maple stock is awesome. Now you just cost me two more days of staring at these pretty rifles and figuring out what options I want !

 

[malfakir]

I stay away from synthetic stocks. They do weigh less but they don't look good.

 

[malfakir]

So thank you all for great insight. So in summary, while the answers are very different and diverse, they all imply: "You need to do more homework"!

- Find and visit local PA gun shops and handle some guns.

- Look up some of the smaller internet outfits, like ToW and Kiblers. They definitely seem to have higher quality and less weight guns.

- Shop around internet sale sites for good used muzzleloaders.

I will post a picture of what I end up getting. Thank you all for the amazing knowledge and great insight. Hope to be able to contribute back one day.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Personally speaking, I think if one wants a real flintlock experience you need to have a gun that really embodies the flintlock era. A classic long rifle, a fowler, a brown Bess or something similar. The Hawken does not fit this category for me.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I think Clyde makes a good point. Nothing against the others, but a traditional flint gun is the cat's meow.

 

[malfakir]

I stopped by Dixon's Muzzleloader on my way up north and got to handle a few guns. The lightest he has was the Lyman Deerstalker in .54 which was good. I know this does not please the traditionalists but weight is a big factor considering the distance I will need to walk up the mountain. Now rhe fiber optic sights and the plastic ramrod are quite cheesy in my opinion but i could replace them with a wooden dowel and some good Williams sights. So the question now is what bullet/patch(if any)/powder grain combination would you recommend (if you even do) for such rifle for maximum accuracy? Has anyone gone through this experiment?

 

[Rifleman1776]

plastic ramrod are quite cheesy in my opinion but i could replace them with a wooden dowel

Understand your feelings on that. But, safety is a huge consideration also. If you are going hunting or woods walking, especially alone, keep the plastic rod. Your mention of using a "dowel" is also disturbing. Hardware store dowels are very poor choices for a ram rod. If you do get a wood rod get it from a ml dealer who has a good reputation for providing only straight grained hickory. BTW, keep in mind it was very 'authentic' for a frontiersman, mountain man, etc. to suffer a slow agonizing death alone in the woods from an injury caused by a ram rod that broke while in use. Personally, I ain't that authentic that I am willing to risk the sharp end of a broken rod going through my wrist.

 

[Sparkitoff]

Every rifle is going to have a load that is most efficient in it. We can't guess what that may be. Start with the manufacturers suggested load parameters. A suggestion is going to be whatever the "suggestor" likes in his/her rifle. My rifle likes 80 grains of FFFg Goex and a .18 pillow tick patch with 7:1 dry lube. However, my rifle has a different barrel length, rate of twist and depth of grooves. Most printed suggestions say start with grains equal to caliber (in this case 54 grainsin a 54 caliber) to start. Others will tell you 1.5X the caliber which is 81 grains. In any case, there is plenty of information about how to work up a load, experiment with patches, etc. Please ask any specific questions - there's a lot of good people with good info here to help you!

 

[Davemuzz]

For my T\C hunting rifle, years ago I purchased an aluminum RR. (I know......barrel wear.....but wait!) The aluminum RR had brass threaded ends.....but the first time I tried to pull a ball....the end just popped out. So I drilled 'em an pinned 'em. No problems since.

Now, aluminum is very harmful to the barrel when constantly being rubbed against it. So, I have a brass muzzle RR guide. The RR guide just hangs off the end of the RR.

The worse that can happen with this is I would get all worked up by a 27pt buck and bend the rr trying to load it sideways.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The worse that can happen with this is I would get all worked up by a 27pt buck and bend the rr trying to load it sideways.

If I ever saw a 27 point buck I would need a change of britches. :shocked2:
BTW, my synthetic rod of choice is Delrin although I do use stainless steel and brass at the range on occasion.

 

[tecum-tha]

$1000 is too high for the entry level flint stuff which is ok, but definitely not balanced, but not enough for the more authentic reproductions that actually handle closer to originals.
$1000 normally gets you a used custom rifle with a regular uniform barrel. If the barrel is longer, these guns feel muzzle heavy.
It is another step un in price of around $300-500 to get a swamp barrel gun which has much better balance. This gun for example is a good deal if the LOP is correct for you: https://www.longrifle.com/shop/artisans-works/longrifles/62-cal-america-jager/

This gun will kill everything stone cold dead in America and will be a pleasure to carry (6.25lbs.) and handle(less than 40" long).Measure your LOP with a T-Shirt on and deduct 1/2 to 3/4" to accommodate for cold weather clothes.

Or: https://www.longrifle.com/shop/artisans-works/longrifles/58-cal-jager/
Or: https://www.longrifle.com/shop/artisans-works/longrifles/virginia-rifle-2/
Smooth: https://www.longrifle.com/shop/artisans-works/longrifles/french-d-fusil-fin/

The difference between a low grade gun and a good grade gun is evident just by looking at it. One also needs to know, that a basic quality rifle parts kit will cost you around $700-800. It probably takes most guys 80 hours to build and finish it right. So at $10 per hour, the assembly price should be at least $800. Most builders charge min. $1000 to build their kits and I bet they have the time down to about 40 hours on those kits, as they will have all special tools and jigs already made up.

The best ramrods are the one with a steel core: http://www.periodramrod.com/
I use them almost exclusively for competition. They are safe and look good.

 

[Davemuzz]

Thanks for the link to the steel core RR. Those would seem to solve the look\strength\don't stab my hand issues.

 

[hanshi]

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with an OTC halfstock rifle, I just don't warm up to them. I do have one built from scratch that was one of the "rugrat" rifles built by Mike Lange. It's percussion (currently) and short, light and it fits me (a little guy) perfectly. I have no plans to hunt with it at all; but who knows. It is a fun shooter, accurate and a .45. I've only used it for matches over the years.

It did replace a 20 plus year old Traditions DeerHunter .50 which killed oodles - is that a word? - of deer. There is no shame associated with owning, liking, shooting or hunting with these guns; I'd still recommend checking out some longrifles.