Help Identifying two muskets

[Flightmedic-117]

Hello all,

I am requesting help identifying two muskets I recently inherited. I have had a lot of people try to purchase them but I don’t even know what they’re worth and if the other musket is authentic or reproduction.

Thank you for any assistance help you guys are willing to share.

 

[Flightmedic-117]

Here are some additional photos of the two muskets

 

[Muddly]

Look to be early model Enfield cavalry carbines. The captive rammer and sling bar/ ring are the giveaway. The " VR" stamp under the crown is British property. Enfield that came over for the " Late Unpleasantness " from 1861-65, were not crown property and would not have the VR stamp.
Wherever it served, it " been there done that " and got the cap, coffee mug and 4 volume video set...
The other one looks like a Model 1841. Can't make out any lock plate markings. The blonde stock hints at repop. Nicely aged if so.

 

[kje54]

The one with the captive rammer looks like an Enfield artillery carbine based on the rear sight but the captive rammer denotes an 1856 cavalry carbine.
The other one looks like an 1847 Springfield cavalry carbine but (to the best of my knowledge) they came without rear sights. The rear sight could have been added later. The problem with my second guess is the front band is not an 1847 front band. Hopefully someone with much more knowledge than me in this area will chime in.

They both look to be originals.

 

[kje54]

delete

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

Are there markings on the breech of the "1847" Artillery carbine? That might be a reproduction of a carbine I'm forgetting at the moment.

The others are correct about the first being the British used version of the p1856 Cavalry Carbine.

 

[hawkeye2]

The one with the sling is an Italian reproduction of the Confederate J. P. Murray carbine which was based on the 1841 Mississippi. The rays in the wood grain give it away as beech. There should be proof and manufacturer's marks on the barrel. These have been made by various Italian makers over many years.

 

[Flightmedic-117]

Thank you very much for sharing what these two muskets are!

 

[Flightmedic-117]

With the one you all identified as the 1847, there are zero markings anywhere on the gun.

 

[kje54]

The one with the sling is an Italian reproduction of the Confederate J. P. Murray carbine which was based on the 1841 Mississippi. The rays in the wood grain give it away as beech. There should be proof and manufacturer's marks on the barrel. These have been made by various Italian makers over many years.

Thanks Hawkeye, you are correct. In the back of my mind I knew my Springfield guess was wrong and that I sould have recognized it as I owned a reproduction J.P. Murry thirty years ago. It's been so long I just forgot what they looked like.

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

A reenactor could have filed off the markings and rebrowned the barrel. Definitely agree it's the repro JP Murray.

 

[Flightmedic-117]

Given the condition of the Tower, do you have an idea of what would be a reasonable offer?

 

[Flightmedic-117]

My Uncle who I inherited the guns from did re-enactments and was part of the CSA I believe.

 

[hawkeye2]

With the one you all identified as the 1847, there are zero markings anywhere on the gun.

1841, not 1847. Most likely they have been removed, often done by reenactors.

 

[Packrat]

LOCK SAYS tower

 

[GREENSWLDE]

The one with the Iron barrel bands is a Pattern 57 Enfield Cavalry carbine. I had one years ago with Inspectors stamp as BSA5 in the X sabers. It was always assumed to be a Approval Pattern from Birmingham Small Arms. From what I remember it was 5 groove And shot well out to 200yds. Never tried it further as we found it was knocking 1/2 Bricks from the back of the double brick Barn wall we shot at. I sold it as the BANG and MUZZLE BLAST was too close for comfort with it's 24" barrel. It Hurt as well.. OLD DOG..

 

[toot]

agreed the one with the star and new cotton sling is indeed a reenactor gun!! some body wanted it to be a TEXAS, gun, by stamping a star on it!!