Help identifying unmarked RNMA cylinder

[Smokefire]

I bought an unmarked .44 call percussion cylinder on eBay recently. It was advertised as being for a Pietta ‘58 Army. However there are no proofmarks on it. Below are some measurements I took off of it.

Arbor pin hole: 18/64”
Cylinder chamber ID: .4375”
Cylinder OD: 38/64”
Cylinder length: 2 1/64”

It will fit in a 2020 manufacture date Pietta RNMA, but the timing and bolt lock up is not right. I’m wondering if this is either a very old Pietta cylinder that won’t work in a modern frame, or if it’s possible a Uberti or some other older one. Attaching a few pics of the cylinder and the timing area on the back.

Unfortunately , the seller is not accepting returns… psh. I probably should have known better.

Let me know what you think.

 

[ZUG]

Could be from a kit build.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

If the cylinder is actually a Pietta as you mentioned, it could be from an older pre-CNC manufactured model which were less exact. Have had mixed results trying to swap cylinders in various older Pietta Remingtons.

You stated that "Unfortunately , the seller is not accepting returns… psh." Since the cylinder does not work Ebay will back you up if you initiate a return stating the cylinder does not work in your Pietta. If the seller stated gunsmithing may be required you may be out of luck. Not sure if you will be reimbursed for return shipping.

 

[TFoley]

Most from likely a kit - ALL Italian-made fireable weapons must be proofed - it's the law. And proofmarks applied to show it.

 

[NotDanielBoone]

Credit card dispute. That costs the crooked seller money, too.

 

[Jappo]

A Pietta cylinder is longer than the Uberti. Check the gap between cylinder and forcing cone. Sometimes too much end play will cause timing issues.
An Uberti will fit the Pietta but not vice versa.

 

[Smokefire]

A Pietta cylinder is longer than the Uberti. Check the gap between cylinder and forcing cone. Sometimes too much end play will cause timing issues.
An Uberti will fit the Pietta but not vice versa.

If anything, the unmarked cylinder is a hair longer than a proofed Pietta cylinder. However, when the hammer is fully cocked, there is quite a bit of side to side play (the cylinder will turn about 3/32” counterclockwise!)

When you manually lower the hammer from the full cocked position, the cylinder falls back counterclockwise to the safety notch to the right of the nipple that was lined up in the full cocked position. It must have something to do with the wider and seemingly less defined timing cuts on the back of the cylinder.

See photo, proofed cylinder on the right, unproofed cylinder on the left.

 

[Smokefire]

If the cylinder is actually a Pietta as you mentioned, it could be from an older pre-CNC manufactured model which were less exact. Have had mixed results trying to swap cylinders in various older Pietta Remingtons.

You stated that "Unfortunately , the seller is not accepting returns… psh." Since the cylinder does not work Ebay will back you up if you initiate a return stating the cylinder does not work in your Pietta. If the seller stated gunsmithing may be required you may be out of luck. Not sure if you will be reimbursed for return shipping.

The listing is short and sweet; states it’s for a Pietta 1858 .44, U.S. shipping only, ask all questions before buying as all sales are final. Nothing about gunsmithing being required. They reiterate in the eBay description form and the listing title that it’s for a Pietta.

It does say that the purchase is covered by eBay’s money back guarantee. I’m wondering why they are saying it’s Pietta, like how are they sure since it’s unmarked?

If I 100% knew this cylinder would work in an earlier Pietta frame, I’d keep it as a spare or maybe to trade in the future if I found someone who needed it and it worked in their frame. But it annoys me that they clearly state Pietta when there are no markings. In the future, I will likely stay away from used cylinder purchases!

 

[Jappo]

I would contact the seller and see what they say. If its a good seller he will probably accept a return. If they get combative about it. Open a case with ebay. "Not as described"

 

[Jappo]

If anything, the unmarked cylinder is a hair longer than a proofed Pietta cylinder. However, when the hammer is fully cocked, there is quite a bit of side to side play (the cylinder will turn about 3/32” counterclockwise!)

When you manually lower the hammer from the full cocked position, the cylinder falls back counterclockwise to the safety notch to the right of the nipple that was lined up in the full cocked position. It must have something to do with the wider and seemingly less defined timing cuts on the back of the cylinder.

See photo, proofed cylinder on the right, unproofed cylinder on the left.

If its longer it might be for an older Pietta. Pietta has the longest cylinder that I know of. I know its longer than the Uberti and ASM. Might be for some other knockoff?
Did you happen to look at the sellers sold/ended stuff? Might find an answer there.

 

[Smokefire]

If its longer it might be for an older Pietta. Pietta has the longest cylinder that I know of. I know its longer than the Uberti and ASM. Might be for some other knockoff?
Did you happen to look at the sellers sold/ended stuff? Might find an answer there.

Yeah I was thinking that as well, but there were no other Remington BP revolver parts in their listings, just random gun parts and holsters. When I got the cylinder, it had remnants of a small adhesive tag on the side, which caused me to surmise it might have been from a parts lot or was always being sold as a single unit vs a parted out gun, but that’s pure conjecture on my part.

 

[Smokefire]

I would contact the seller and see what they say. If it’s a good seller he will probably accept a return. If they get combative about it. Open a case with ebay. "Not as described"

I sent them a message stating the cylinder did not function properly in two different Pietta frames. I asked them what lead them to believe it was for a Pietta revolver as the listing states.

Again, if I knew this would fit and function in an older (or brass?) framed gun, I have no problem saving it for a rainy day, the nipples look brand new and the cylinder doesn’t show any real signs of honest shooting wear, I’d even say by the looks of the chambers that it’s possibly never been fired.

But then I still need a functional cylinder for a 2020 frame..

 

[45D]

If anything, the unmarked cylinder is a hair longer than a proofed Pietta cylinder. However, when the hammer is fully cocked, there is quite a bit of side to side play (the cylinder will turn about 3/32” counterclockwise!)

When you manually lower the hammer from the full cocked position, the cylinder falls back counterclockwise to the safety notch to the right of the nipple that was lined up in the full cocked position. It must have something to do with the wider and seemingly less defined timing cuts on the back of the cylinder.

See photo, proofed cylinder on the right, unproofed cylinder on the left.

The problem ( from your description) is the SHORT side of the bolt is too short. In other words, the bolt isn't locking up the cylinder fully. The tall side engages the tall side of the notch but the short side is too short to not allow the cylinder to rotate backwards.
As the hammer falls, the hand is dragging on the ratchet tooth which causes the cylinder to rotate counterclockwise.

The solution will be to reduce the tall side of the bolt (level) until you get lockup in reverse. Then you can add bak any angle down to the short side (but don't touch the short side).

Mike

 

[Smokefire]

The problem ( from your description) is the SHORT side of the bolt is too short. In other words, the bolt isn't locking up the cylinder fully. The tall side engages the tall side of the notch but the short side is too short to not allow the cylinder to rotate backwards.
As the hammer falls, the hand is dragging on the ratchet tooth which causes the cylinder to rotate counterclockwise.

The solution will be to reduce the tall side of the bolt (level) until you get lockup in reverse. Then you can add bak any angle down to the short side (but don't touch the short side).

Mike

At this point, I think I’ll leave the bolt alone and try to find a modern Pietta cylinder. If I can return this one I will.

I know I’m not hallucinating because it functions the same incorrect way in two different modern Pietta frames.

 

[45D]

At this point, I think I’ll leave the bolt alone and try to find a modern Pietta cylinder. If I can return this one I will.

I know I’m not hallucinating because it functions the same incorrect way in two different modern Pietta frames.

Yes, because it's a "depth of notch" thing . . .
The bolt head "adjustment" would allow both cyls to work.

Mike

 

[Smokefire]

UPDATE: the seller decided to accept a return so I shipped it back. He couldn’t remember exactly what brand the gun was that he parted out, but acknowledged that it could have been an ASM or a Uberti.